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View Poll Results: Will secession happen in America after insolvency?
Yes, we are already segregated in our communities (''Big Sort'' by Bill Bishop) 7 10.29%
Yes, (other reason) 22 32.35%
No, the USA will stay together until the very end 26 38.24%
No, (other reason) 13 19.12%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-23-2010, 08:19 PM
 
173 posts, read 364,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's nutty that there is any correlation between an economic "collapse" (which hasn't happened anywhere) and secession. There was no secession during the Great Depression.
The Great Depression had a main common culture and communities weren't so segregated as it is now. Liberals live with liberals and conservatives/traditionalists live with conservatives/traditionalists more and more. I view this daily throughout America. Conservatives are abandoning Rush, Sarah, Glenn and others similar for being superficial, fake and ''conservative'' entertainers (they are basically not true conservatives). Many conservatives I have talked to online and in real life have done this. The Obama base abandoned Barack Obama in the mid-terms because he wasn't doing enough liberal policies for them. This is also an observation I have seen online and in real life when talking to liberals. There are still people with a blend of views but this is becoming less and less.

The US government is still printing dollars and that is the only reason why Americans haven't felt the catastrophe... yet. Like I said China, Russia and other countries are slowly releasing their holdings and using their own currencies for trading instead of the USA dollar. America has huge levels of debt in many sectors and insolvency will happen sooner or later.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:22 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,667,610 times
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How would the country be divided into two? I didn't see a map or a description on the links you posted.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:28 PM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,906,017 times
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I'd like to know which States you would expect to secede. The ones gaining population share and therefore political clout? Not likely. States like CT which send much more to the Feds than they get back? Alaska? Not when Sarah Palin wants to be US President.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,747,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia12345678910 View Post
The Great Depression had a main common culture and communities weren't so segregated as it is now. Liberals live with liberals and conservatives/traditionalists live with conservatives/traditionalists more and more. I view this daily throughout America. Conservatives are abandoning Rush, Sarah, Glenn and others similar for being superficial, fake and ''conservative'' entertainers (they are basically not true conservatives). Many conservatives I have talked to online and in real life have done this. The Obama base abandoned Barack Obama in the mid-terms because he wasn't doing enough liberal policies for them. This is also an observation I have seen online and in real life when talking to liberals. There are still people with a blend of views but this is becoming less and less.

The US government is still printing dollars and that is the only reason why Americans haven't felt the catastrophe... yet. Like I said China, Russia and other countries are slowly releasing their holdings and using their own currencies for trading instead of the USA dollar. America has huge levels of debt in many sectors and insolvency will happen sooner or later.
LOL! The old "that's different" explanation.

Not as segregated back then? There was legalized segregation of the races back then. The culture wasn't as "common" as you might think.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:38 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,319,728 times
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In order to secede, one must work very hard.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,745 posts, read 3,958,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
In order to secede, one must work very hard.
And of course if you fail, try, try again. In the supreme court.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,756 posts, read 8,579,743 times
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I don't believe that the majority of Americans wish to fragment their country and destroy the power and opportunites that have been built up over the 2 centurys of our existance.

Currently according to Gallup polling.
"Conservatives" Are Single-Largest Ideological Group

This is also reflected in voting results of the last several elections.
Zeek | Where Right and Left Collide: A Zeek Debate

Using these as a basis for a hypothosis, it is easy to conclude that with the exception of urban areas, most of the country is basically conservative.

Extrapolating from said hypothosis, it would be suicide for the liberals to wish to try to wall themselves off from the rest of the country as most of the resources, food and land are controlled by red areas. While urban areas create the laws and taxes for the rest of the states, if the rural areas refuse to comply or get fed up with the confiscatory taxes imposed by a remote unresponsive government to pay for things the taxpayers do not wish to fund, the urban areas are the ones that would suffer if the food shipments, tax moneys and other necessesities of life stop flowing from the countryside to the citys.

The liberals currently have a political power that far exceeds their numbers due to the prevelence of liberal control of the press, universities and unelected government positions. They have the soapbox, the schools and the way to create useless regulations to make life difficult for everyone else, so that power gives the illusion of larger importance than what their numbers would indicate.

The conservative areas of the country could in fact strangle the urban liberal areas in event of a situation such as the American Civil war as the liberal areas do not have the numerical, stratigic resources nor supplies necessary to take the rest of the country by hostile means, or enforce its law if they did control large areas. If not supported by the general populace, you have sabotage and insurrection just as the Germans found in the conquered countries during World War 2.

Countries like China would smuggle weapons to both sides to keep the fight going because strife removes a trading competator, the one country that can thwart their imperialistic designs to expand their influance, and with the US out of the equation, you would see wars across Asia Europe and the Middle east break out as countries struggled to fill the void we would leave in this circumstance.

If there is to be a revolution, the history of this country indicates that it will be done in a way to change the fundamental direction of the country by ballot, by tax moneys, by the majority rejecting the policies of the left as was seen in the 2010 elections when the left pushed too far too fast.

Segregation by political bent has always occured, just as it has by socio-economic status or nationalities.
Attacks against the basic foudations of the United States by presidential fiat, by congressional heavy handedness and by judicial activisim from the bench have caused a lot of unrest in the country as evidenced by the rise of groups such as the TEA Party and a large segement of the population voting against the incumbent party in Washington.

The fringe far left has no more power than the fringe far right, however as our founding fathers said, "Government exists through the consent of the governed". When the politicians loose sight of the job they were hired to do, they can, will, and have been fired by the people.

The vast majority of people don't worry about Don't Ask Don't Tell, or most of the other garbage flowing out of Washington right now.
They want a job, they want to provide for their families, they want to be safe from foreign people bringing crime and draining resources from their local communities.

All the chest pounding, hair pulling and name calling in the world won't change the fact that the basic American citizen doesn't care about the lofty political rhetoric, they just want to live their lives in peace.

The United States break up? Could happen, not in the near future because we have too much to loose.
Will it happen? Maybe. Times change all things and I don't have a crystal ball.
But for those formenting dissent to cause chaos so they can profit by unrest to institute their ideals must remember, A revolution needs revolutionary people, but once the war is over, they are seen as troublemakers and a threat to the status quo, and as such, are removed as a threat one way or another.

Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,386,151 times
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It would not succeed as two seprated Conservative and Liberal nations.
Liberal America would become a socialism that could not work. You can't have an entire nation of people taking and not returning. Communes in the late 60's failed just because of that reason.
On the other hand you could not have a sole conservative nation because each would be working to force the competitor out of business. You can't have a conservative society with that many failures. Basically to many Indians would die leaving only chefs.
Contrary to popular belief of many liberal and conservatives. One needs the other. IE People breath in Oxygen and breath out Carbon Dioxide. Plants use Carbon Dioxide and give Oxygen.
The founders knew this and designed this country not to be dependent on one philosophy but to combine many
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:56 PM
 
175 posts, read 273,841 times
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careful what you wish for in radical times.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia12345678910 View Post
America is in huge debt --- U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time and economic collapse will occur ... Colleges are entering bankruptcy and local and state governments are broke.
Somewhat correct, but not grounds for secession.

Some of this is covered here:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...e-deleted.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...hrive-die.html

Summed up:
[] The U.S. government has been bankrupt since 1933. (You do know that a "dollar bill" is a worthless IOU...)
[] The government has operated under a perpetual "temporary" State of Emergency for 77 years.
[] The U.S.A. was re-organized into the United Socialist States of America, in 1935.
[] The imminent collapse is due to (a) usury and (b) socialism / collectivism.

Will secession resolve the problem?
No.
Secession will only help the predators waiting patiently to steal what they can.
===================
So, is there any solution or set of solutions that would reverse the steady march to collapse?
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ment-90-a.html
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...icine-usa.html
====================
What is commonly perceived as a "right versus left" ideological battle is contrived nonsense.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...lib-v-con.html
====================
What Americans desperately need to learn is their heritage and birthright under the "republican form of government" (not to be confused with the partisan Republican party).

The republican form is where the people are sovereigns, and directly exercise that sovereignty.

No other nation on this earth has a republican form (not to be confused with "republic"). Every other nation's government is sovereign over its people.

Only in America are the people superior to the government - until they surrender that sovereignty.

The world's greatest propaganda ministry has been responsible for conditioning millions to accept illusion despite the facts being in print, in any county courthouse law library. That millions have been kept ignorant and apathetic shows their power.

If you wish to break that "power", secession is not the solution.
Knowledge is.
Don't believe me - go read the law for yourself.
I may have made an error - I am not infallible.

But so far, I have yet to find one law that violates the sovereignty, freedom and independence of the sovereign American national / free inhabitant, domiciled upon his private property, endowed with natural and personal liberty, of which the servant government swore an oath to secure.

That "they" have tricked millions into surrendering their birthright and heritage is a fact. But there is still time to educate oneself to the truth, withdraw consent, and restore one's lost status at law.
Or at least there's time until the USSA collapses and the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America arises.
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