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When you stated:
"But if the workers know the management is questionable and the job is an utter failure, then how smart are they if they contribute to the effort?" who is the "management"?
Come on...have some intellectual honesty and tell the truth.
And the American Soldiers reenlisting in Iraq have seen the positive accomplishments and know they are winning. You don't and that's fine.
I never think of Bush as managing the war. I don't think for a second that he's running the show. He's a puppet doing whatever he's told. I can't point to the specific person or group of persons, but Bush is just their spokesmodel, and a poor one at that.
In any case, that doesn't change the fact that the war has gone badly, especially for the Iraqis. I still concede that our troops are mind-controlled. That these individuals want to go back is just evidence in support of my belief that our military employs tremendous energy to impact the thoughts of its willing 'victims', its cannon fodder, its lemmings.
While instances of generosity and humanity are worthy of praise, you can find such instances in any war. But, I'm not going to believe for one second that we spent half a trillion dollars to help lost Iraqi children find their way home. We are there to create chaos and disrupt a whole region for corporate gain and world domination. "Winning" is peace and we've seen none of that nor will we. All for now, good night.
if these people don't see how messed up it is, why should we salute them? Are we now cheering the lemmings when they run off the cliff?
I had my concerns from the start this would resurface. It has taken 32 years, but the post-war American attitude towards returning soldiers is starting to come back. I can only describe it as distant and disdainful. It makes my heart ache to listen to vets relive their first few years home.
My advice to those people who genuinely give a damn about these soldiers: you see a vet, you look them straight in the eye and you thank them for serving. It will lift their spirits, and if I'm right, they'll be needing it.
Last edited by Art1979; 07-17-2007 at 11:14 PM..
Reason: Typo correction
I agree, don't take the frustration with the morons in charge out on the troops. Most of them are in their early - mid 20s and are facing a helluva lot more than most of us luckily will ever have to in our lives. You know that band of brothers bond is why they reenlist. For a lot of them their comrades mean more to them then their own family members, because they face incredible hardships and suffer together. I was military and while I never had to go through what these guys are doing month after month, I still felt a kinship with my comrades that you just never get working 9-5 in an office. And while I believe this is a failed strategy, some of the localized tactical successes these guys are pulling off are true accomplishments and should be recognized.
I had my concerns from the start this would resurface. It has taken 32 years, but the post-war American attitude towards returning soldiers is starting to come back. I can only describe it as distant and disdainful. It makes my heart ache to listen to vets relive their first few years home.
My advice to those people who genuinely give a damn about these soliders: you see a vet, you look them straight in the eye and you thank them for serving. It will lift their spirits, and if I'm right, they'll be needing it.
Thank you for posting.
Here are some fantastic videos I know you will love:
Here is another one. This is the first thing thing our trooops see coming home on R&R from Iraq and Afghanistan each day when they fly into the international terminal at DFW Airport:
But why would they willingly reenlist in the Military to go back to Iraq?? WE know the answer. They want Iraqi children to enjoy the same freedom and Democracy that their children enjoy.
And anyone who believes we haven't done positive things in Iraq and the we aren't winning in Iraq just doesn't take the time to go to Multi-National Force Iraq, or Michael Yon, or Bill Roggio to find out the read day to day facts on the ground in Iraq.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001
But if the workers know the management is questionable and the job is an utter failure, then how smart are they if they contribute to the effort? I would agree that morons is a harsh term, but if these people don't see how messed up it is, why should we salute them? Are we now cheering the lemmings when they run off the cliff?
Of course none of us wishes them harm. I'd much rather they be home being parental units to their own children. Their motivations must be completely delusional or our mind-controlling military is way too successful. I say, bring 'em home. We need them HERE.
As I've said, I don't believe this invasion/uccupation will be of long term benefit to the US but I wouldn't refer to the troops as lemmings or delusional We see the violence and lack of progress on the news and there is no doubt it's been and continues to be a horrible war but...................I have no doubt that many have been able to do some good while there and I can't fault them for wanting to continue. I believe in the "you break it. you fix it" theory and I can't fault them for wanting to fix things.
And worst case scenario while continuing the management/worker analogy, it wouldn't be the first time workers rode out a stretch of poor management because they believe in what their company was ultimately trying to achieve.
And as much as I wish we'd never started this war, as much as I'd like to see all of our troops home safe, I believe we must try to establish at least a start at stability before we withdraw and I have nothing but respect for those willing to work at it.
As I've said, I don't believe this invasion/uccupation will be of long term benefit to the US but I wouldn't refer to the troops as lemmings or delusional We see the violence and lack of progress on the news and there is no doubt it's been and continues to be a horrible war but...................I have no doubt that many have been able to do some good while there and I can't fault them for wanting to continue. I believe in the "you break it. you fix it" theory and I can't fault them for wanting to fix things.
And worst case scenario while continuing the management/worker analogy, it wouldn't be the first time workers rode out a stretch of poor management because they believe in what their company was ultimately trying to achieve.
And as much as I wish we'd never started this war, as much as I'd like to see all of our troops home safe, I believe we must try to establish at least a start at stability before we withdraw and I have nothing but respect for those willing to work at it.
I appreciate your heart felt thoughts.
I think many would have a more positive opinion of American Soldiers as human beings trying to do good if they took the time to just go to Multi-National Force - Iraq once a week and just read about their positive accomplisments.
Their ARE many positive accomplishments in Iraq and the majority of American Soldiers actually care about the Iraqi people and their children's future, too.
Below 1LT Micah D. Taylor of the Mannheim, Germany-based 18th Military Police Brigade, receives a kiss of thanks from a girl at the Iskandariyah school. Taylor was part of the humanitarian mission to provide the children with school supplies. Soldiers receive the supplies from an organization called Operation Iraqi Children, through which Americans donate book bags, school supplies, and toys.
Below Captain William Johnson, the 1-8 Combined Arms Battalion chaplain, gives candy to Iraqi children on the streets of Balad, Iraq, March 4. Johnson and other members of 1-8 CAB were on the streets of this city west of Baghdad to see how the efforts of the Fighting Eagles have improved life.
Below a Soldier from the 1st Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, takes time to play with Iraqi children at a medical screening, in Mosul, Iraq.
Below Sgt. Maj. Benny Hubbard, from the Army Corps of Engineers, greets an Iraqi child prior to a ribbon cutting ceremony for a new elementary school in Afak. This photo appeared on The United States Army Homepage.
Below Maj. Roger Alsup, a Missouri National Guardsman from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and principal of T.S. Hill Middle School in Dexter, Mo., distributes school supplies to Iraqi children in Fallujah. The supplies were donated by students and faculty at Alsup's middle school. This photo appeared on The United States Army Homepage.
I feel sorry for "peaceful" and "loving" people that are so full of hate and can never seem to see any good qualities in American Soldiers.
I said this before..Our military are the best the brightest and the most brave....I honor them....
American-Liberterian...the pictures are beautiful...thank you
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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The pictures posted are exactly the type of thing that I think makes it easy to understand why service men/women would want to re-enlist and continue their service.
I only wish the latest National Intelligence Estimate was as encouraging. It would be a pleasure if in ten years I felt compelled to write GWB a letter apologizing for ever doubting his plan, sadly I don't see that as a likely possibility.
Last edited by burdell; 07-18-2007 at 12:21 PM..
Reason: Spelling Correction
The well respected and conservative Christian Science Monitor reported in May of 2007 that re-enlistment rate has dropped from 96% in 2005 to 84% this year (to date) among mid-grade enlisted soldiers, as stated in my previous post. That's 4% less than the goal set in 2005 and 16% less this year. I assume the year in between where no figure was given declined exponentially.
A particularly interesting point made in that same article:
"The Army has got a tough job," says Mr. Korb, a personnel chief at the Pentagon in the 1980s. "They didn't start this war and they probably didn't want to have it, but now they have to deal with the consequences of it."
Korb worries that various pay-to-stay programs that the Army is employing may have a long-term effect by retaining soldiers who might otherwise have gotten out. "You want the people who love the Army and want to stay in," he says. While the money keeps them in for now, Korb adds, they won't stay when the reenlistment cash disappears."
For many --if not all-- of those re-enlisting, $20,000, the re-enlistment 'bonus,' is a lot of money. They wouldn't receive that kind of money by returning to their normal routines here at home. For me, that's quite sad: no amount of money is worth risking your life, your physical and/or mental health, and well-being for the rest of your life (and that of your family's).
It has also been reported that the Army, in particular, and other branches of the military have significantly dropped their expectations of recruiting and re-enlistment goals. Thus, if the initially-set goal for re-enlistment was, say, 80,000 and actual re-enlistment occurred at, say, 62,000, the Army restates its goal at 60,000 and thus suddenly has a better than 100% re-enlistment statistic.
This is the sort of thing the Bush Administration has been very good at doing. Redefining goals. If it looks like you won't reach your goal, lower the standard to a level you can reach and voila! You've reached your goal!
We're only talking about re-enlistment, too. How about the new recruiting statistics? Way down.
I point these statistics out as a matter of fact, and not because I hate our military personnel, or wish them harm, or anything like that, as some here have implied. Such asinine and ignorant comments are not worthy of retort.
The well respected and conservative Christian Science Monitor reported in May of 2007 that re-enlistment rate has dropped from 96% in 2005 to 84% this year (to date) among mid-grade enlisted soldiers, as stated in my previous post. That's 4% less than the goal set in 2005 and 16% less this year. I assume the year in between where no figure was given declined exponentially.
In 2007 we now know every man or woman who has joined or reenlisted in the U.S. Military is commited to the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They have made the conscious decision to go to Iraq and that's the way it should be.
We aren't leaving Iraq any time soon so would you prefer a Draft?
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It has taken 32 years, but the post-war American attitude towards returning soldiers is starting to come back. I can only describe it as distant and disdainful. It makes my heart ache to listen to vets relive their first few years home.
Semantics & tweaking
