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Back in the 1700s, there were also race and gender restrictions on who could vote. Do you want to bring those back, too?
There is NO WAY a democracy can survive without universal suffrage. Take away the vote from the poor and middle class, and you don't have a democracy (or "representative republic"), you have a plutocracy. A plutocracy built upon oppressing the poor. A nation of a few, powerful rich, and millions of disenfranchised serfs. That is not America, that is England during the Dark Ages. Do you really want to take us back to the Dark Ages?
If, God forbid, the poor did become disenfranchised, I would vote with my feet and move to a free country. I want no part of a country that strips its citizens of their rights because they are poor.
Voting is not an inalienable right. You were not born with the right to vote, because the government can take away voting rights as they please. Voting is a privilege, as we see when felons get their voting rights taken away. It is like driving. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If voting was an inalienable right, then foreigners who were not born here, or naturalized here, would be able to vote.
Voting is not an inalienable right. You were not born with the right to vote, because the government can take away voting rights as they please. Voting is a privilege, as we see when felons get their voting rights taken away. It is like driving. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If voting was an inalienable right, then foreigners who were not born here, or naturalized here, would be able to vote.
You're right, but I think you're making too much of a hair-splitting argument. You're making a distinction between inalienable rights and political rights. Inalienable rights are also known as natural rights, and most famously include rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Voting is a right under our Constitution. American citizens have the right to vote in elections, unless deprived of that right through due process of law. They cannot be deprived of that right for reasons of race, gender, age (18+) or for inability to pay any form of poll tax.
Frankly, I think under our democratic traditions, to propose restricting the right to vote to those who are not sufficiently employed or "have skin in the game" goes against fundamental American principles going back to Jackson. Universal suffrage is one of our proudest traditions, and one of the aspects that makes America great, not something that hurts out country.
You're right, but I think you're making too much of a hair-splitting argument. You're making a distinction between inalienable rights and political rights. Inalienable rights are also known as natural rights, and most famously include rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Voting is a right under our Constitution. American citizens have the right to vote in elections, unless deprived of that right through due process of law. They cannot be deprived of that right for reasons of race, gender, age (18+) or for inability to pay any form of poll tax.
Frankly, I think under our democratic traditions, to propose restricting the right to vote to those who are not sufficiently employed or "have skin in the game" goes against fundamental American principles going back to Jackson. Universal suffrage is one of our proudest traditions, and one of the aspects that makes America great, not something that hurts out country.
I'm still 50/50 on that. So I take the better alternative, and just gradually phase out 100% of all entitlements together, just like it was pre-FDR. We got along fine then, we can do it now. More government has neutered our ability to take responsibility for ourselves, and take care of ourselves. That's how ALL of us are living and breathing today, because our ancestors saw it through and eventually gave rise to us. You have to admit, you're gonna have to make a choice sometime. Either to take care of the poor at the detriment of the whole nation, and risk making 297 million people live in
poverty eventually, or let go of the 43.6 million Americans living in poverty today, and some of them will climb out of it? 43.6 million is a lot less than 297 million in my eyes.
I'm referring to people who don't work, aren't on welfare, and don't get unemployment. No visible means of support. Often homeless, but don't use any public facilities such as emergency rooms for medical care, etc. There are thousands of people like this around the country. Based on your outlook, they do not contribute anything to society. At the same time, they don't ask anything of society. Do you advocate taking away their right to vote??
If they don't work but are not on welfare of some sort, I have no problem with them. Perhaps I should rephrase and say leaches of society, those who suck the lifeblood out of taxpaying citizens.
Amen. All Americans have a right to vote. Once you disenfranchise the poor, what's to stop you from disenfranchising women, blacks, Hispanics, the mentally ill, those with children, Christians . . . . the list goes on and on. America is NOT a nation "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich," it is a country "of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE and for the PEOPLE." This is a democracy, NOT an oligarchy.
But then I'm wondering...how many people such as you describe actually do vote?
His definition would include women who have made the choice to stay at home and to raise their children (as the cons want); the unemployed through no fault of their own...
Looks to me like the OP wants white men to vote and will find excuses to deny the right to vote to others unlike him.
Yo, you lost me at "I can differentiate between those who..."
For what it is worth, I knew a lot of war Vets that were chronically unemployed.
What does this have to do with anything I said? I don't care if they are a war vet or not, if they are not capable of supporting themselves without gov't assistance (aside from whatever VA help they get), I take issue.
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