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I understand the argument of the trickle-down proponents (such as yeledaf's post). However, on that same token, if the money was in the hands of middle-class Americans instead, what do Americans do best?
We spend money. If businesses want to appease their shareholders and help offset the lower profits due to higher taxes on the rich, then produce products that Americans want to buy. They'd probably make even more money then. But! Businesses would need to produce quality products to get our money.
Just curious as to why do you think some people still believe in voodoo economics.
that's a great question.
my fairly uneducated belief is that, the rich create jobs, which puts money in the pockets of those who choose to work. those that choose to work, end up with money to spend on what they desire. those that receive their hard earned money use it as they desire. seems like a great cycle to me...
i'm definitely not one of those who strives to be in that top 1% or 20% of the wealthy...i strive to make enough money to be comfortable paying my bills and provide for my family. i think in the large scheme of things, most would fall in line with the same "strives" as myself.
there will always be those who will want to own the next biggest company, and make more money than they'd ever need. just like there will always be people like myself. just like there will always be people who don't give a rats ass, and will scrape by however they're able.
trickle down just makes more sense to me, than the opposite...success should be rewarded, and that reward comes from people buying their product or service.
where would the trickle up come from? it would make more sense to me to reward the wealthy for charitable donations, rather than taxing them to ensure charitable donations...just a note, i don't believe in corporate welfare, just as much as i think social welfare is broken and needs to be fixed.
my fairly uneducated belief is that, the rich create jobs, which puts money in the pockets of those who choose to work. those that choose to work, end up with money to spend on what they desire. those that receive their hard earned money use it as they desire. seems like a great cycle to me...
i'm definitely not one of those who strives to be in that top 1% or 20% of the wealthy...i strive to make enough money to be comfortable paying my bills and provide for my family. i think in the large scheme of things, most would fall in line with the same "strives" as myself.
there will always be those who will want to own the next biggest company, and make more money than they'd ever need. just like there will always be people like myself. just like there will always be people who don't give a rats ass, and will scrape by however they're able.
trickle down just makes more sense to me, than the opposite...success should be rewarded, and that reward comes from people buying their product or service.
where would the trickle up come from? it would make more sense to me to reward the wealthy for charitable donations, rather than taxing them to ensure charitable donations...just a note, i don't believe in corporate welfare, just as much as i think social welfare is broken and needs to be fixed.
Trickle down... someting I've seen work.. Businessman has a business.. Business man gets tax relief.. Business man is now able to afford more workers. Business man hires more workers.
Business man gets hit with more taxes.. Business man can't afford to hire more workers. Business man makes current workers work twice as hard.
Is it perfect - no.
Do the middle and lower class get "richer" - no
Is there something better - haven't come across anything - so wouldnt know.
The one thing people forget is - we are a society and always will be a society of GREED. The business owner/runners/board of directors WILL get their cut before anyone else does.. When you try to take a chunk of that cut - the rest of the workers will pay for it - in one way or another.
If you don't believe that - then look at your own lifestyle and income and own up to your own greed. You (we) always want more and are less willing to "trickle down" our own money. HOWEVER.. it is a known fact that when the economy is good charities receive more donations - thus the trickle down reaches those who are homeless or in dire need.
If you can't afford to donate $20 - you won't.. if you can - you will... its called trickle down.
I understand the argument of the trickle-down proponents (such as yeledaf's post). However, on that same token, if the money was in the hands of middle-class Americans instead, what do Americans do best?
You do realize that without the rich, there can be no hands in the middle class right? How many jobs are created by Bill Gates compared to those on welfare? Which one would pay more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy
We spend money. If businesses want to appease their shareholders and help offset the lower profits due to higher taxes on the rich, then produce products that Americans want to buy. They'd probably make even more money then. But! Businesses would need to produce quality products to get our money.
Businesses only need to produce quality products when people demand quality products. As it is now, we have limited competition, and yes, thats because of this "I hate those who produce" mentality americans have anymore..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy
Isn't that what business should really be about?
Nope.. businesses arent about producing quality products, its about making money and meeting the consumer demand. When there are so many on poverty, then the demand is for cheap products.. Only with trickle down, can high quality products be sold. Do you really think those on welfare buying the newest latest product at high cost which helps driving down the cost making it more affordable for the rest of us?
Trickle down... someting I've seen work.. Businessman has a business.. Business man gets tax relief.. Business man is now able to afford more workers. Business man hires more workers.
Business man gets hit with more taxes.. Business man can't afford to hire more workers. Business man makes current workers work twice as hard.
Or even worse, business man decides he needs to outsource or eliminate positions because its cost effective to do so.. Similar to how many grocery stores have replaced cashiers by automated checkout systems. Nope, no middle class being helped there because of liberal policies, thats for sure..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itz
Do the middle and lower class get "richer" - no
Many times the alternative to trickle down actually creates even less middle class and more lower class, creating poverty...
Because the media and the political parties feed it to them 24/7. It's a beautiful way to get people to vote against their own interests and get fired up over their bosses' bosses' boss getting a tax raise.
Auto company wants to build plant in either Ohio or Mississippi. Missisppi offers a good location and low taxes. Ohio offers a better location and lower taxes. Auto company builds plant in Ohio. (Ohio is Best LOL). Auto company makes lots of money, HIRES FIVE THOUSAND WORKERS who make good wages and benefits. They spend their money in local businesses. Their kids patronize local fast food places and other youth-oriented businesses, who have to hire more people, who spend their money locally, etc., etc., etc.
Is the picture clearing up for the OP?
Call this trickle-down, voodoo, whatever you want. Hate the owners of the auto company and the managers, who make more money than the workers. But don`t try to convince those workers that they'd be better off on welfare or in some government-sponsored make-work program. Or maybe fighting in one of Obama`s wars against some bad guys on behalf of some other bad guys.
And don't change the subject, which is JOBS. You know, the Democrat`s former mantra? Before they started bailing out banks and making billions for the military-industrial complex -- speaking of lies?
That all sounds so quaint and fairy tale-esque. You forgot the part where the company holds Mississippi and Ohio hostage during the decision making process, and both states trip all over themselves to accommodate this company. They settle in Ohio because it offered billions in tax giveaways and is allowing a housing complex to be destroyed via "Eminent Domain" so the car company can build a garden in front of their complex.
From there they offer slightly decent pay and push for non-union workers. After a few months they decide to "downsize" because Executive pay isn't high enough, oh and Ohio we need a few billion more to build a parking garage. You wouldn't want us to pack up and leave to Mississippi or Mexico...would you...WOULD YOU?
Quote:
Toledo, Ohio -- Chrysler Corporation, having just merged with the German auto giant to become DaimlerChrysler, is teaching this city about some state of the art corporate socialism. Last year, Chrysler announced that it would expand the existing Jeep plant if the City government would subsidize this project with local tax dollars and a 100% property tax exemption.
With over $9 billion in cash reserves and reporting record profits, Chrysler wants to freeload on the backs of small businesses and home owners who have to pay their fair share for city services and who paid for their land and improvements with their own money.
The Mayor is on bended knee, one step ahead of whatever Chrysler demands in money and extended secret negotiations. It has taken 16 months for the City to issue a signed agreement with Chrysler, while violating one law after another including those that block the right of residents and citizen groups to obtain information, receive proper notice of proceedings and participate in the decisional process.
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