20 trillion by 2016, no end in sight, a fix??? (legal, health care, premium)

[AeroGuyDC]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

Sorry, NOT WRONG, the top 400, people making over $200 million on average, only pay 18.1% of their taxable income toward Federal income taxes. FACT. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08intop400.pdf

Someone making $200,000 a year pays 19.6%
Someone making $500,000 a year pays 23.4%
Someone making one million a year pays 24.1%
Someone making two million a year pays 24%
Someone making five million a year pays 22.9%
Someone making ten million a year pays 19.8%
And the top 400, those Golden ones pay 18.1% Less percentage wise that someone making $200,000 a year.


People making

Your post proves only one side of your story. If you re-read, I didn't question the "18.1%" figure....I questioned your assertion that the middle class pays more taxes as a percentage of income. This is not possible if nearly half of America doesn't pay income taxes. It's hard to "pay more" if you don't "pay anything". That's my point. Read the story I linked if you have trouble believing me.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by summers73

The social program BKing will happen. It will just be a matter of which politicians are left standing when the music stops and the chairs are taken away. The blame game will merely be noise.

I'd like to hear the left wing spin on how "less government" advocates helped to bankrupt the nation..

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

I comprehend far more than you. Reagunomics has been a failure.

If you understood far more than the other poster, then why did you post a chart and then equate spending to Presidents, not Congress, which is where the responsibility lies?

[Chango]

Originally Posted by tickyul

This is the number I keep reading, and yes it does sound right in line with the currrent projectory of this once fine countries NATIONAL DEBT.

I keep reading that the Fed is recommending a 2 TRILLION dollar increase in the debt limit. So by the end of 2012 we will most likely be at 16 TRILLION, 20 TRILLION by 2016 is real easy to picture.

So when inflation starts to rear its ugly head (already showing in things like food and fuel) the fed will HAVE to raise interest rates, this will make our reckless borrowing much more expensive.

And you see the politicians are jawing big time about closing the budget deficit...........no mention of paying down our horrible debt......not even on the map. Non-discretionary spending is 2.3 trillion and we take in 2.2 trillion, wow, something really wrong there.

WILL THIS COUNTRY EVER BE ABLE TO PAY DOWN THIS HUGE NATIONAL DEBT????

WHAT SOLUTIONS WOULD YOUR OFFER IF ANYBODY WOULD LISTEN TO YOU??????

DO WE NEED A CONSTITUTION AMMENDMENT THAT FORCES A BALANCE BUDGET ON OUR CREEPY POLITICIANS>>>>

There are 2 solutions- Default now and suffer the consequences or default later and let whoever gets voted in next take the heat for it.

But there is good news... according to the The Fourth Turning, the catastrophe years will be over after about the mid 2020's and we'll start a new golden age, if we survive...

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by buzzards27

I comprehend far more than you. Reagunomics has been a failure. If handing out a never ending stream of tax cuts to the top earners was supposed to trickle down and spur growth when is that going to get started?




It is easy to see where we veered off course. Face it, Reagunomics CAUSED the current debt crisis. To BEGIN to fix the mess to to undo what Reagumonics did to tax policies.

Fixing the debt is not an overnight proposition, it is going to take years to resolve the follies of the past. But handing out more tax cuts to the wealthy is NOT going to fix anything. Did NOT work, never has. It is time to go back to the post-WWII tax structures that gave us a strong middle class and allowed us to "pay down" (albeit, through GDP growth) the post war debt. all the RESULT of reagunomics.

Now go back to your chart, and insert who was the majority party in the House of Reps. After all, ALL bills of appropriate originate there (as specificed by the Constitution).

[buzzards27]

bull, when you look at that supposed reagun "growth" with constant dollars there really wasn't any growth. under constant dollars tax collections went down. trickle down is and was a failure, time to fess up.

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

Reaganomics created years of growth.

if it worked so great why has the middle class lost ground over the last 30 years. the top 0.1% sees 400% growth in their wealth as the middle sees ZERO growth.

[buzzards27]

really sad when the party in control cannot admit they f'ed things up, the GOP controlled the WH and the Senate as reagun screwed us all.

Originally Posted by jeffington

Now go back to your chart, and insert who was the majority party in the House of Reps. After all, ALL bills of appropriate originate there (as specificed by the Constitution).

[buzzards27]

so by your logic we can blame this GOP controlled house for the latest budget.

Originally Posted by pghquest

If you understood far more than the other poster, then why did you post a chart and then equate spending to Presidents, not Congress, which is where the responsibility lies?

[buzzards27]

aero, read my post, those making between $200k and $10 million a year pay a greater percentage of their taxable income toward FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.

Someone making $200,000 a year pays 19.6%
Someone making $500,000 a year pays 23.4%
Someone making one million a year pays 24.1%
Someone making two million a year pays 24%
Someone making five million a year pays 22.9%
Someone making ten million a year pays 19.8%
And the top 400, those Golden ones pay 18.1% Less percentage wise that someone making $200,000 a year.

Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC

Your post proves only one side of your story. If you re-read, I didn't question the "18.1%" figure....I questioned your assertion that the middle class pays more taxes as a percentage of income. This is not possible if nearly half of America doesn't pay income taxes.

you are quoting a meaningless stat, sure 52% of all taxpayers pay 97.7% of the FEDERAL INCOME taxes but they earn 96.1% of all income. the bottom 48% isn't earning enough to have to pay taxes. Is your argument that a family of four making $25K to $30k a year needs to pay more taxes? Is that your solution to the debt crisis? REALLY? you do understand that 1/2 of those 50% you are referring to earn less than $15k per year. LOL, I'm sure thes hav plenty of extra money for income taxes.

It's hard to "pay more" if you don't "pay anything". That's my point. Read the story I linked if you have trouble believing me.

that OK, I'll go with IRS stats over your opinion piece. SOI Tax Stats - Individual Statistical Tables by Size of Adjusted Gross Income

[Vejadu]

It's simple. We cannot tax our way out of this mess; one of two things would happen -- the rich will find more loopholes or tax shelters or if we do manage to generate more revenue it will just get spent by the suits in DC.

What needs to happen is entitlement reform. We simply cannot sustain Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, etc. at this level any longer and they all need to be overhauled. However when someone like Paul Ryan has the guts to present a solution that reforms one of our biggest burdens, he's branded as a lunatic by those who don't want their entitlements effected.

We could completely eliminate the military and we would still be around a trillion in the hole each year at this rate. We could confiscate every penny of wealth from the Forbes 400 and it wouldn't cover this year's deficit alone.

Entitlements are nearly 2/3 of our budget and becoming a bigger burden each year. If we can't reform them to be sustaining programs, our debt will grow and lenders will vanish. Without anyone to borrow from, we would be screwed. People just want to kick the can down the road and would rather suffer horribly in the future than feel a little discomfort today.