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Perhaps you should read James 4:11-12, Matthew 7:1-5 or any other scripture of your choice that deals with judging. It's not my place to judge...only to love my neighbor.
Read the whole of the N.T., not just what you've heard through mass media with verses taken out of context.
Wasn't the whole man lying with another man thing right there in Leviticus, not too far from the shellfish business?
Yes, but it also reiterated in the New Testament.
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even [1] their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also [2] the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]" (Rom. 1:26-27).
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)
Perhaps you should read James 4:11-12, Matthew 7:1-5 or any other scripture of your choice that deals with judging. It's not my place to judge...only to love my neighbor.
The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin. If it is a born trait, then you are saying that God made sin. That doesn't line up with God's word. We are commanded to hate sin; note* I did not say to hate the sinner, we are commanded to love the sinner, but hate the sin.
Nowhere in the Bible in the original languages does it state that homosexuality is a sin. Certain same-sex sex acts were referred to as sinful. But these were acts that heterosexuals also engaged in. Such as temple prostitution, male rape, using sex in pagan temple to worship pagan fertility gods etc.
It's only in conservatively commissioned modern English versions of the Bible since the 1950's, that translators have incorrectly used the word "homosexuals" in 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1.
1 Cor 6:9 was used for centuries to condemn "masturbators" not homosexuals.
If people don't understand what homosexual orientation is, and don't understand the context of the handful of biblical verses currently used against gays and lesbians were actually referring to, then I'm not surprised that some people think it "doesn't line up".
21st Century gays and lesbians are not Canaanites worshipping pagan fertility gods.
21st Century gays and lesbians are not heterosexual males using rape against male strangers to humiliate and dominate them.
21st Century gays and lesbians are not 1st century Roman gentiles who had converted to Paul's faith then reverted to their old habits of using sex acts in pagan temples to worship Roman fertility gods and goddesses.
The Bible has been misused and misinterpreted and used to support personal prejudice against many groups of people in the past - like Jews, women, blacks etc.
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even [1] their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also [2] the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]" (Rom. 1:26-27).
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)
These verses are taken out of context. And the word "homosexuals" is a very poor and inaccurate translation of the Greek words "malakos" and "arsenokoites" in 1 Cor 6:9. Those words were never used in Greek secular texts of the time to refer to homosexuals. If Paul had meant homosexuals, there were Greek words he could have used. He didn't.
Why was 1 Cor 6:9 used for centuries to condemn "masturbators", not homosexuals? Why is it only since the 1950's that it has been used to condemn homosexuals? Why did none of the early church fathers use that verse to condemn homosexuals?
In 1 Romans Paul is writing a letter to his people in Rome in the 1st century. He is referring to gentiles who had converted to his God, then reverted back to worshipping their old pagan fertility gods and goddesses. This is obvious if you read the preceding verses instead of cherrying these verses out of context of the whole letter and out of context of the culture in which Paul lived. The practices he is referring to is using idolatrous sex in the temples to worship fertility gods.
If you study more about first century Rome and Greece, and if you examine the verses in their original Greek, it's obvious the people he was referring to would have had to have been heterosexuals engaging in idolatrous same-sex sex acts, not homosexuals. It also does not state that women were having sex with other women - just that what they were doing was "against their nature" - which could have been anything outside of male/female dominant/submissive sex. A woman on top during the sex act, would have been considered against her "nature" because of the status of women in the 1st century.
Plus Paul is arguing that once people have known his God, then reverting back to worshipping other pagan gods would be "against their nature" as well. He was pissed with them for going back to their old gods.
Nothing to do with gays and lesbians in the 21st century or anyone with a homosexual orientation.
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even [1] their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also [2] the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]" (Rom. 1:26-27).
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)
Please learn the meaning of those 2 verses. They do not talk about gay people, they are talking about pagan worship ritual among heterosexuals.
Why on Earth are so many conservative Christians so oblivious to the meaning of their Bible verses?
These verses are taken out of context. And the word "homosexuals" is a very poor and inaccurate translation of the Greek words "malakos" and "arsenokoites" in 1 Cor 6:9. Those words were never used in Greek secular texts of the time to refer to homosexuals. If Paul had meant homosexuals, there were Greek words he could have used. He didn't.
Why was 1 Cor 6:9 used for centuries to condemn "masturbators", not homosexuals? Why is it only since the 1950's that it has been used to condemn homosexuals? Why did none of the early church fathers use that verse to condemn homosexuals?
In 1 Romans Paul is writing a letter to his people in Rome in the 1st century. He is referring to gentiles who had converted to his God, then reverted back to worshipping their old pagan fertility gods and goddesses. This is obvious if you read the preceding verses instead of cherrying these verses out of context of the whole letter and out of context of the culture in which Paul lived. The practices he is referring to is using idolatrous sex in the temples to worship fertility gods. Roman style.
If you study more about first century Rome and Greece, and if you examine the verses in their original Greek, it's obvious the people he was referring to would have had to have been heterosexuals engaging in idolatrous same-sex sex acts, not homosexuals. It also does not state that women were having sex with other women - just that what they were doing was "against their nature" - which could have been anything outside of male/female dominant/submissive sex. A woman on top during the sex act, would have been considered against her "nature" because of the status of women in the 1st century.
Nothing to do with gays and lesbians in the 21st century or people with a homosexual orientation.
We should keep tallies on how many times we've had to reiterate these points on this board.
In my opinion, the challenge that LGBT people have faced in overcoming prejudice and discrimination is more comparable to that of American Jews who have struggled against anti-semitism.
With African Americans, oppression and persecution was more open; and it was against a community of people who were easier to recognize. On the other hand, Jewish people could "pass" and avoid a lot of hassles ... this doesn't excuse anti-Jewish prejudice of course ... but it illustrates the point that the struggle to overcome anti-semitism was different than overcoming racism in America. It appears to me that the gay rights movement was patterned more on the strategies of the B'nai B'rith and the Anti-Defamation League than that of the NAACP or the Urban League.
that's funny because gays and their supporters are usually the most anti semtic of all (leave aside the self hating jews who coincidentally are also in both categories)
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