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Using Berlin (during the Berlin Wall era) as an example, all America cities should have internal walls to separate the population according to race, religion, and ethnic origin.
Using Berlin (during the Berlin Wall era) as an example, all America cities should have internal walls to separate the population according to race, religion, and ethnic origin.
How about having another civil war and let it be winner take all?
Do you believe we should be FORCED to integrate blacks in previously all white and segregated schools? I know the courts decided that separate but equal is unconstitutional, but what do you think? If you were on the supreme court, how would you have ruled?
Should people have the freedom to live in white only neighborhoods and to send their kids to white only schools?
Some say force integration was a failure and that social change must occur naturally and that any GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in race relations is WRONG. Forced integration of schools was DEFINITELY government intervention on the private lives of white americans that didn't wish to associate themselves with blacks.
What say you?
What does forced integration have to do with the "private lives of White Americans?"
No one forced black kids into private schools. Those schools were public.
Do you believe we should be FORCED to integrate blacks in previously all white and segregated schools? I know the courts decided that separate but equal is unconstitutional, but what do you think? If you were on the supreme court, how would you have ruled?
Should people have the freedom to live in white only neighborhoods and to send their kids to white only schools?
Some say force integration was a failure and that social change must occur naturally and that any GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in race relations is WRONG. Forced integration of schools was DEFINITELY government intervention on the private lives of white americans that didn't wish to associate themselves with blacks.
What say you?
Quote:
Should people have the freedom to live in white only neighborhoods and to send their kids to white only schools?
Can a white man be required to sell his home to a white person only? That's not really a question.. the answer is NO! ! !
If a person - of any variety - pays the necessary, proper, and valid school taxes, by whatever means assessed then that citizen should be able to attend or have their child attend any school permitted by the properly assigned district alignment.
Integration was not and is not a failure. For this white boy, I've always gotten along with people of variety better than I have with white folks... especially Catholics. So, maybe segregation was a bit mis-directed, eh?
Should people have the right to live in Protestant only neighborhoods? Should there be separate water fountains for Protestants from Catholics? As a Protestant, I'd welcome Jews into my neighborhood. And citizens of variety.
The Brown decision only outlawed legally mandated (de jure) segregation in public schools. At the time black schools in the South were not "separate but equal," though Southern states were gradually improving them (hoping to avoid a Supreme Court decision overturning "separate but equal," which Brown did).
The original Brown decision resulted in little real integration in schools, because of massive Southern resistance, and because most neighborhood housing patterns, in the North as well as the South, caused de facto segregation in school attendance.
It was the 1966 "Coleman Report" - in which sociologist James Coleman claimed that putting black and white children in the same classroom would raise black test scores to white levels and achieve true equality in education - that influenced the federal courts to order forced integration and busing. They did so despite the fact that by 1966 (as acknowledged in the Coleman report itself), school funding between black and white schools was now roughly the same.
This basically destroyed public schools in America.
Coleman later admitted that the data on which he based his theories that race mixing in the classroom would improve black test scores was flawed. Black test scores did not improve in integrated classrooms. School violence skyrocketed and academic standards declined. The reputation of public schooling in general collapsed. The long term effects of this caused immense damage to American society, and the damage continues today.(For a more detailed analysis of this see my post in the Dallas forum, What Racial Integration & Diversity Did to Dallas Schools, August 22, 2011.)
But by then the integrationists in the courts were demanding integration for its own sake, for supposed social benefits they claimed it brought, like interracial dating and marriage.
The claim by DiogenesofJackson that segregated neighborhoods themseleves were backed by federal and state laws is true...to a point. What he ignores is that these laws reflected the desires of the vast majority of white people (who made up the large majority of the population) to live in white neighborhoods, and that when the laws were ruled invalid, people found ways to continue to live amongst their own kind. That's human nature and there is not only nothing wrong with it, it's healthy. In other words, absent any pressure from the laws, and given true freedom of choice, most people self-segregate.
Or would if they could.
For now we have a completely different situation. Now the federal government, as well as state and local governments, have largely been taken over by the forces of political correctness and multiculturalism, whose chief goal is the destruction of the traditional American nation, with its white majority, and reconstructing that nation as a multicultural / multiracial society, in which there is no majority, just a collection of minority groups, all depending on the government for benefits.
The chief target, which must be destroyed to make this reconstruction succeed, is white people. Their identity, their cohesiveness. So the pressure by governments to integrate in every sphere of society has not only continued, it has drastically increased over the years. A realtor or apartment manager will now be destroyed by the federal government if he or she is found to have "steered" a minority (especially a black) away from buying a house in a white neighborhood or renting in a white apartment complex. Employers are under tremendous pressure to hire a "diverse" work force, even if it means employing less qualified minorities over more qualified whites. The same is true, of course, in the affirmative action programs which dominate our colleges and universities, and even our armed forces.
And in those integrated schools the history students are taught shows white people as the villains, and people of color as the victims (and heroes), of America's past.
So, flawed as it was, Jim Crow segregation was better than what we have now. And yes, in a free country, people should have the right to associate with whomever they please. They should have the right, in a private business, to hire and to serve whomever they please. They should have the right to live amongst whom they please and to send their children to whatever kind of school they please.
But we don't live in a free country anymore. We live in a diverse country.
The Brown decision only outlawed legally mandated (de jure) segregation in public schools. At the time black schools in the South were not "separate but equal," though Southern states were gradually improving them (hoping to avoid a Supreme Court decision overturning "separate but equal," which Brown did).
The original Brown decision resulted in little real integration in schools, because of massive Southern resistance, and because most neighborhood housing patterns, in the North as wells as the South, caused de facto segregation in school attendance.
It was the 1966 "Coleman Report" - in which sociologist James Coleman claimed that putting black and white children in the same classroom would raise black test scores to white levels and achieve true equality in education - that influenced the federal courts to order forced integration and busing. They did so despite the fact that by 1966 (as acknowledged in the Coleman report itself), school funding between black and white schools was now roughly the same.
This basically destroyed public schools in America.
Coleman later admitted that the data on which he based his theories that race mixing in the classroom would improve black test scores was flawed. Black test scores did not improve in integrated classrooms. School violence skyrocketed and academic standards declined. The reputation of public schooling in general collapsed. The long term effects of this caused immense damage to American society, and the damage continues today.(For a more detailed analysis of this see my post in the Dallas forum, What Racial Integration & Diversity Did to Dallas Schools, August 22, 2011.)
But by then the integrationists in the courts were demanding integration for its own sake, for supposed social benefits they claimed it brought, like interracial dating and marriage.
The claim by DiogenesofJackson that segregated neighborhoods themseleves were backed by federal and state laws is true...to a point. What he ignores is that these laws reflected the desires of the vast majority of white people (who made up the large majority of the population) to live in white neighborhoods, and that when the laws were ruled invalid, people found ways to continue to live amongst their own kind. That's human nature and there is not only nothing wrong with it, it's healthy. In other words, absent any pressure from the laws, and given true freedom of choice, most people self-segregate.
Or would if they could.
For now we have a completely different situation. Now the federal government, as well as state and local governments, have largely been taken over by the forces of political correctness and multiculturalism, whose chief goal is the destruction of the traditional American nation, with its white majority, and reconstructing that nation as a multicultural / multiracial society, in which there is no majority, just a collection of minority groups, all depending on the government for benefits.
The chief target, which must be destroyed to make this reconstruction succeed, is white people. Their identity, their cohesiveness. So the pressure by governments to integrate in every sphere of society has not only continued, it has drastically increased over the years. A realtor or apartment manager will now be destroyed by the federal government if he or she is found to have "steered" a minority (especially a black) away from buying a house in a white neighborhood or renting in a white apartment complex. Employers are under tremendous pressure to hire a "diverse" work force, even if it means employing less qualified minorities over more qualified whites. The same is true, of course, in the affirmative action programs which dominate our colleges and universities, and even our armed forces.
And in those integrated schools the history students are taught shows white people as the villains, and people of color as the victims (and heroes), of America's past.
So, flawed as it was, Jim Crow segregation was better than what we have now. And yes, in a free country, people should have the right to associate with whomever they please. They should have the right, in a private business, to hire and to serve whomever they please. They should have the right to live amongst whom they please and to send their children to whatever kind of school they please.
But we don't live in a free country anymore.
Jim Crow segregation was NOT better than what we have now.
Segregation, and the laws that enforce it, depend on the premise that one group is inferior to another. There is no other reason to segregate. And because that premise is the ONLY reason to segregate groups of people, it means that there is NO such thing as separate but equal. The act of segregation, or sorting people into groups, is an assertion of inequality all by itself.
Desegregation is not an attempt to force people to interact involuntarily, it is a recognition of the effects of decades of segregation laws that were mandated by the state, and an attempt to reverse those effects.
Desegregation policies can be heavy-handed, and even counter-productive. But they are NEVER, EVER worse than Jim Crow laws. NEVER.
I think it is sad that we are still talking about this in 2011.
I for one prefer to live in a diverse neighborhood so my kids can meet people from all walks of life.
That is fine, that however does not deal with the issue which is forcing such.
You prefer one thing, another prefers something else. Both are free to pursue that which fits what they desire. As long as neither infringes on the liberty of another to pursue what it is they wish, then... all is good.
Do you believe we should be FORCED to integrate blacks in previously all white and segregated schools? I know the courts decided that separate but equal is unconstitutional, but what do you think? If you were on the supreme court, how would you have ruled?
Should people have the freedom to live in white only neighborhoods and to send their kids to white only schools?
Some say force integration was a failure and that social change must occur naturally and that any GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION in race relations is WRONG. Forced integration of schools was DEFINITELY government intervention on the private lives of white americans that didn't wish to associate themselves with blacks.
What say you?
This is funny because Repug/cons scream about Democrats "playing the race card". They swear racism is dead so "playing the race card" isn't right or legitimate....
and then along comes a blatantly racist OP poll...and numerous other "Blacks do this.." , "Why do Blacks..." threads, the reference to Obama as "man/child"( BOY)... ....proving beyond any doubt that racism is alive and flourishing in the Repug/Con ranks.....(as if that wasn't obvious before)
Do Repugs think they're fooling anyone???
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Forced integration was a disaster
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