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The younger generation may be more liberal, but I don't they're that liberal.
About a third of the Mills I know are Republican, a third are Democrat and another third being Independent or having no party.
Most I know are against abortion, many I know believe marriage is supposed to be a man and a woman, so there are still some pretty conservative ones.
I'm a Gen Yer and I have to disagree. I know almost NOBODY my age who agrees with me politically. Many of them think abortion is okay b/c they could still see themselves having one; they are young, after all, and many are not stable in a job yet (i.e., financially able to have a child). Many of them are "open-minded" about gays in general. We have been indoctrinated with all of this stuff and grown up in an age that could almost be compared to hippy times...things were very free when I was growing up, sex, drugs and rock 'n roll is still a typical lifestyle and not just one that was abandoned decades ago or still adhered to only by true hippies from back in the day. Drinking was no problem, having sex with whomever was no problem, getting drugs and using them was no problem, nobody judges you for these things anymore b/c everyone else is doing it, too. That's how it was for me in high school and college. When you grow up in this kind of environment, where you don't really learn to think for yourself b/c you just do what everyone else is doing, you don't really give much real thought to issues.
To add, my generation was indeed taught that college is something that is expected, not something that is optional (back to the indoctrination by our parents and our school systems). We expect to graduate and get a starter job, develop a relationship with someone and then marry and buy a home together. You work your way up the ranks and hopefully get promoted, if not, you find something else. I agree that we were not taught to necessarily be financially responsible people, but we were taught that education is important and that if you attain one, you can have anything you want in life (i.e., the American Dream). Credit has been easy to come by and it gets a lot of people in trouble.
The people who are conservative like me are oftentimes much older than me, even older than boomers. My parents are totally liberal and both of them are boomers. My grandparents agree with everything I say when it comes to politics. That being said, my entire family has busted their butts to get to where they are today, and that is a value that was passed down to me. Gen Yers who don't believe this were either children of absent parents (either physically absent or emotionally absent) or they have watched the world around them and somehow decided that as long as they have an education, they are entitled to everything for free instead of working for it. JMO
The Gen Y'ers are the grand kids of the Baby Boomers so of course grandparents feel their grand kids are slackers. As a Gen X'er (well, at 35 I'm on the tail edge of Gen X) I have to agree; Gen Y'ers are slackers.
Although there are hard workers in the younger generations, people like me (very tail end of the Baby Boom) are constantly faced with the realization that when we had jobs like waitress and bartender and clerk in a high-volume store, we hustled and were incredibly efficient and processed at least 20 transactions in the time it takes the modern worker to do even one. We were horrified when lines formed and worked at lightening-speed to get each customer served and on their way without delay. For some reason, modern workers couldn't care less how long customers have to wait, and they wouldn't hustle even if the place were on fire.
In particular, my spouse and I recently went to a famous large club that has live bands and makes its money off of drink sales. Both of us had worked there summers while in college. At that time, when a drink was 1/3 down, the waitress was expected to ask if you wanted another one, and have it ready before you swigged down the last of the drink in front of you.
My, times have changed. Though they had twice as much staff, we were amazed at the time it took to flag down a waitress to get our initial beers, and during the 3 hours we were there, we managed one refill after about an hour of empty glasses caused us to go hunt a waitress down. We noticed that the waitresses moved slowly, spent much time chatting with co-workers at the bar, and did every task (take a drink order, walk to give it to the bartender, wait and chat while it was filled, then deliver it) consecutively rather than grouping tasks (take 10 orders, fill them all, deliver them all) as would be far more efficient. Much of the time there wasn't a waitress in sight, meaning they were hidden in the back--a firing offense in our time, since there is no reason for a waitress to be there there.
We know from experience that modern service workers are a gross parody of slow-motion service, compared to what we provided when in those jobs (and we got paid minimum-wage too, so it wasn't that). I was horrified to see customers in lines and worked as fast and efficiently as possible, and certainly never took a break while there was still a line. Yet in the years since, I can't tell you how many times I've waited in long lines only to have the cashier simply say "break time" and walk away, leaving me to go stand in another endless line. Or the times that there were 3 or 4 people behind the counter, but only one "low" enough to have to wait on customers, while the others chatted and pretended to clean or fill napkin holders.
This is why people like me think, in general, later generations simply don't put in the effort we did. When we do find those who do, we reward them with very large tips and praise. And BTW, as an engineering student, I suspect you are the exception to the rule. Very few students choose such a demanding field, when every other field is much less demanding. Just make sure you get well compensated for your work, because one of the drawbacks of our generation is that we WERE willing to give everything to an employer and ask nothing in return--and with the advent of the Robber-Baron CEOs, engineers have been reduced to working 80 hour weeks for NO additional pay, and getting paid about as much as the bean-counter "business majors" that could sleep through class and still pass.
Don't let the business world take advantage of future engineers like it did our generation.
I agree with this but I see it in the generation that comes after Gen Y, whatever you want to call it (or maybe just the tail end of Gen Y?). Kids in high school and just getting into college are indeed slackers, for the most part. At the restaurant we have, we have a couple high school kids and I am constantly telling them to move faster, go help such and such customer, actually be ready to start work when clocking in, etc. They don't understand that when it's busy, you hustle. I see this MUCH more with them than I do with people my age and older.
Also when I shop at Walmart or go to McDonald's and that kind of thing, the people working there are total idiots and half the time don't even acknowledge you, they talk to their co-workers, don't tell you to have a nice day, they walk away when a line is forming, package your stuff horribly, etc. These are mostly younger kids that I notice this with.
I think all this may have more to do with maturity and less to do with generation.
I'm a Gen Yer and I have to disagree. I know almost NOBODY my age who agrees with me politically. Many of them think abortion is okay b/c they could still see themselves having one; they are young, after all, and many are not stable in a job yet (i.e., financially able to have a child). Many of them are "open-minded" about gays in general. We have been indoctrinated with all of this stuff and grown up in an age that could almost be compared to hippy times...things were very free when I was growing up, sex, drugs and rock 'n roll is still a typical lifestyle and not just one that was abandoned decades ago or still adhered to only by true hippies from back in the day. Drinking was no problem, having sex with whomever was no problem, getting drugs and using them was no problem, nobody judges you for these things anymore b/c everyone else is doing it, too. That's how it was for me in high school and college. When you grow up in this kind of environment, where you don't really learn to think for yourself b/c you just do what everyone else is doing, you don't really give much real thought to issues.
To add, my generation was indeed taught that college is something that is expected, not something that is optional (back to the indoctrination by our parents and our school systems). We expect to graduate and get a starter job, develop a relationship with someone and then marry and buy a home together. You work your way up the ranks and hopefully get promoted, if not, you find something else. I agree that we were not taught to necessarily be financially responsible people, but we were taught that education is important and that if you attain one, you can have anything you want in life (i.e., the American Dream). Credit has been easy to come by and it gets a lot of people in trouble.
The people who are conservative like me are oftentimes much older than me, even older than boomers. My parents are totally liberal and both of them are boomers. My grandparents agree with everything I say when it comes to politics. That being said, my entire family has busted their butts to get to where they are today, and that is a value that was passed down to me. Gen Yers who don't believe this were either children of absent parents (either physically absent or emotionally absent) or they have watched the world around them and somehow decided that as long as they have an education, they are entitled to everything for free instead of working for it. JMO
I feel sorry for you. If you truly believe that people want to have abortions legal because they think they themselves will have an abortion, you truly do not understand our generation. No. Sometimes, things happen. A mother might have been raped, incest might have occurred, contraception failure, medical complications, etc. might have occurred. It's not as clear cut as "damn pregnant again". Yes that occurs, but we typically don't deny rights because a few people exercise their rights in questionable ways. We don't deny everyone freedom of speech because of people like Westboro Baptist Church.
As for your views on gays, people are more open minded because we know more. We know about the genetics of homosexuality, the sociology, and how children raised by homosexuals end up. Turns out, homosexuals are no more different than heterosexuals on the whole. So people are accepting since we know now that Johnny and Jeff can have the same type of relationship as Johnny and Beth.
Drug use overall is down since the 1990s. Yes, some people have experimented, however that doesn't make them bad people. I experimented in college. I stopped afterwards. I rarely drink nowadays. Why? Well it was fun, but now it's over. Responsibility is the key. Programs like DARE and scared straight don't work because it sets up the Pandora's box scenario. As does our ridiculous drug laws. Really therapy and rehab are the best ways to clamp down on drug use...not being condescending and holier than thou.
No its not indoctrination that we were expected to go to college. Baby Boomers send industrial jobs abroad leaving fewer choices. Essentially low wage white collar jobs, military, the few blue collar jobs available, or mid/upscale white collar jobs. As mid/upper income blue collar jobs were being outsourced by Baby Boomers, most parents realized that the only way to retain middle class status is for their children to get the mid/upper income white collar jobs...which require a college degree.
I don't know of any people who feel that since they went to college they deserve to be upper class. I know people that feel that they deserve fair compensation for the work they are doing. I know people who feel that they deserve the same tuition percentage of income as in the past. I know people who feel that they deserve the same health care costs as a percentage of income as in the past. Which are things that they do deserve. Those are things that made America viable economically. Now we are drowning in debt, while the rich are increasingly investing abroad and becoming tremendously rich.
We work more and get paid less, rather we get paid the same...but see less of our income. It's not a viable system if we want to have a middle class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 What I'm telling you is that "the kids" aren't going through anything previous generations have not experienced. So you can spare us all the drama and get to work improving your "woe is me" lives.
Sigh They are. Read this post closely and than watch Elizabeth Warren's talk when you have time. You obviously don't understand these issues. Read this post and watch the video. You only have to wathch from 8 min on.
Once again this post is appropriate to get to the bottom of the situation being discussed here. Specifically, grown adult children in their 20's to 30's who can not afford to live on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero it doesnt
its becoming harder to afford many things for all people
a personal example...I make about 3 times what my father made at his highest level...and it is tougher for me to make ends meet that it was for him
look at the price of a car...a midsize chevy (say the nova) in 1970 was $2200.....today a midsize chevy is 20k or more
the value of the dollar is in the toilet
Yep!!!!! And going lower. Wait till QE3 LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Also the wages aren't there and if you compare that with inflation it just doesn't work.
In 1980, I had an entry level job as a sound engineer with a local independent TV station earning $5.00 per hour.One paycheck paid my rent and utilities and auto insurance and the other 3 paycheckseach month were disposable income.
An entry level job today pays $8.50 to $10 per hour and even at $10 per hour it takes 2 paychecks to cover the cost of rent, utilities and auto insurance (and don't forget in 1980 $10 -- or two hours of work -- paid for 2 tickets to the cinema show, a tank full of gasoline and something to eat after the movie -- the cost of two movie tickets now is over $20).
GuyNTexas says IT ALL Here!!!!
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year oldworking in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ...I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years. (See video below she documents ALL this IN DETAIL)
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company.
Due to the left leaning teacher's unions and left leaning Profs in many colleges, the youth springing out of education are messed up and need a good tens years of paying taxes before they learn about how the real world works.
Many are home with parents, never heard of working two jobs, working graveyard and so forth.
They have to get over entitlement mentalities.
There are good ones, but a lot of ruined ones due to the left. Some will recover, others will live with their hands out.
For the most part today's youth, including Gen y are hopeless. They don't want to work, and when they do, you can tell they hate it because they just plain out suck at their jobs. All they want to do is surf facebook and other social sites. Pretty soon they won't even know how to have an actual conversation with people because they are so damn addicted to their gadgets. The parents of Gen Y and beyond are to blame right along with the public school systems. Nobody is teaching these kids the responsible usage of technology such as the internet, they are allowed to do what they want and have no clue about the damage they are doing to themselves when it comes time to get a good job or accepted into a top university.
I despise the accursed Baby Boomer generation. They are America’s WORST generation. The sooner they all die off the better this country will be. I am part of the Reagan Generation (jr. high, high school, and most of college in the 80’s). I also despise the labels that the Baby Boomers use for the other generations (Gen-X, Gen-Y, etc.) The accursed baby boomers dominate everything just by their numbers. Advertisers cater to them and politicians pursue them and that only increases their entitlement mentality. They are the generation of ‘me’. They aborted their kids in large numbers and now they are complaining that there won’t be enough workers around to pay for their hugely expensive Medicare bills. Well, boo hoo. Screw them and their social security too. They got themselves (and our country) in to this mess. Let them fend for themselves for the first time in their miserable lives. These big babies are so used to the world bowing down before them while they hold everyone else in contempt. They refuse to grow up even as they are (finally) starting to die off. I hope science finds a way to extend the human lifespan by 50 years right around the time the boomers are in their 80’s and have all sorts of medical problems. That way they can see the younger people start to enjoy extra-long healthy lives as they waste away in their decrepit bodies. Oh, and before anyone asks, no, my parents are not baby boomers. They were alive before WW2. My family has no one from America’s Worst Generation in it.
Why would someone want to "work hard" for an employer offering minimal benefits and job security? What would be the point of that, aside from enriching someone in a corporate office in Switzerland and burning yourself out at a young age?
In other contexts, that arrangement would be known as a "scam."
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They are. Read this post closely and than watch Elizabeth Warren's talk when you have time. You obviously don't understand these issues. Read this post and watch the video. You only have to wathch from 8 min on.
) 
And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ...
I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
