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Old 06-06-2011, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Murika
2,526 posts, read 3,004,783 times
Reputation: 1929

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Well, this is not very insightful. Your argument is that a country being broke means that it's political system has failed.

Only problem is that the US, too, is broke - so, does that mean that Capitalism is a failed system? That it has bitten the dust and that we need to come up with a better system here?

I will agree that the political orientation is shifting to the right - as it always does when social or economic problems arise.

All it means is that a centered or balanced approach is what people perceive to be the most appropriate course of action. It's the same in Europe as it is in the US - only idealists and those with limited comprehension of issues and their interrelatedness want extremes.

Many countries have historical experience with extreme politics (usually "right-wing") and none has fared well under such a system...(Parenthesis simply because being on the "right" can mean completely different things, depending on the country - such labels do NOT mean the same across countries). The shift that you can currently see in some EU countries has more to do with Xenophobia rooted in the costs associated with providing a "decent" standard of life to the thousands of destitute immigrants the current social systems afford them.

I believe your perception that socialist/liberal policies are being rejected world-wide is about as far removed from reality as it gets. People in Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc. demonstrate because the financial situation requires restrictions in their social services - they are not jubilating that these services are taken away... If anything, they are upset that they are not able to maintain or expand such social/liberal policies and only a very, very small minority wants to abolish social policies.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,898,352 times
Reputation: 4512
Portugal isn't socialist, and that's just a defeat of the Socialist Party. The Spanish socialist party is going to be defeated too.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,256,496 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Oh, here we go with the standard, "but EU conservatives aren't the same as US conservatives" meme. Who cares? Doesn't matter in the scheme of socialist/liberal policies being REJECTED worldwide.
But that is the point - it isn't being "rejected." No one in Portugal is calling for smaller government, a private healthcare system, and an end to entitlement programs. They still accept and want the so-called "socialist" policies (which aren't truly socialist anyways, but many people like to call them that to make it appear way far to the left).
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:43 AM
 
1,167 posts, read 2,170,705 times
Reputation: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
You need to re-check your definition of capitalism, because as I remember, capitalism throughout the 1940s-1960s produced a prosperous middle class and generated small income-gaps between the wealthy, the middle class, and the poor.

And, by the way, many European nations are not socialist. They are a blend of heavy government hands and private ownership.
Runaway, unchecked greed *aka capitalism*. People are gonna get greedy, problem is they got way, way, way too greedy.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,578,968 times
Reputation: 9030
Well, we have had a far right government here for the last 5 years and just elected them again. Have they scrapped any of Canada's generous social programmes??? Well, uh NO they haven't. So, with all these so called "Nanny state" things going on here the Canadian economy must be in a horrible mess, right? Well uh NO, Canada's economy came through the recession better than any country in the western world. Canadian banks are the world's strongest. Canadian Real estate is red hot with prices still on the increase. How is that possible if sanytghing the American right says is true? Well, it's not possible and that leads to one and only one conclusion. Everything the American right says is untrue, is a lie, is a red herring, is a misterpresentation, is out and out propaganda worthy of a Hitler or a Stalin.

When are you Americans going to get a clue and come to the realization that the problems besetting America have nothing to do with the Nanny state or government programmes that attempt rather lamely I must say in the USA to create a "More just society".

Your problem is Greed. Greed of the small % that own and control most of the resourses of the country. In order to protect their exalted position they would resort to anything. Do you think for one minute they care about some small town in mid America somewhere where for no fault of their own the people no longer have jobs? If they can't even feed their children anymore do you think these 1%ers care in the least? Does it bother them when they ship American jobs overseas and put Americans out of work? Not in the least and in fact they pat themselves on the back for making more of their God, $$$$$.

Thesaer people hate the USA. You can hear it every time they open their mouths. They are traitors of the worst sort pretending to be super patriots and yet every single thing they do and stand for is bad for the country and bad for the people but wait a minute here it's not bad for everone. It's good for them and their masters. The piper plays the tune and they dance. The dance of the political whores. It's a disgusting spectacle and if Americans don't do something about it then it's game over for the golden days of the USA.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
2,200 posts, read 4,423,197 times
Reputation: 1386
The OP needs to explain the following:

Why is Labour way ahead of the Tories in UK polling now?
Why is the Socialist Party leading in France?
Why is the SPD leading the CDU in Germany?
Why is Italy treading water under a centre-right government?
Why did Greece reject the centre-right government and install a Socialist government after their economy collapsed?
Why did Iceland do the same thing as Greece?
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:20 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,873,039 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Portugal can't raise it's debt and borrow like the US, both have a bloated bureacracy. I wouldn't expect a socialist or democrat would be reelected with a 12% unemployment rate.
What about with a 9+% unemployment rate like the USA currently has????
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,256,496 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadell View Post
Runaway, unchecked greed *aka capitalism*. People are gonna get greedy, problem is they got way, way, way too greedy.
Capitalism is NOT "runaway, unchecked greed". That's my point. Can capitalists succumb to runaway, unchecked greed? Yes. But so can communists, socialists, barter-ists, etc.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:25 AM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,924,929 times
Reputation: 13807
This thread is more of the same. The conservative cheer-leaders on here generally have a complete lack of understanding of European politics and the way most Europeans view the role of government. They then take an isolated event and extrapolate it to try to prove their US idealogical views are correct.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,256,496 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by psulions2007 View Post
The OP needs to explain the following:
Why is Labour way ahead of the Tories in UK polling now?
Can you provide a link to this/these polls? I have one poll taken June 5 that shows Labour up 42-37 against the Conservatives (hardley "way ahead", especially when accounting for margin of error), but the survey also surveyed nearly 100 more Labour-party "members" than Conservatives. The only age group with whome Labour has an advantage are the very young (18-24). For all other age groups, Conservatives are at a 2-7 point deficit (and lead among those 60+).

Quote:
Why is the Socialist Party leading in France?
The Socialist party won many local elections, and some of this is likely because Sarkozy has low approval numbers for his foreign policy. Secondly, the other party which has surged suddenly in France is a far-right party, the National Front Party, which are strongly anti-immigration.
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