Michele Bachmann in Her Own Words: ‘Gays Are Part of Satan’ (party, election)

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

From your article A major study of child abuse and homosexuality revisited — Warren Throckmorton countering mine [emphasis and underlined section mine]:

'The main results — gays report more abuse than straights — may indeed be correct, given the similarity to past studies. However, I do not believe any inferences about causation should be made. Without the actual surveys, there is no way a reader can figure out the results from the journal article and/or the dissertation.

One final thought, the research on sexual abuse among GLBT populations is often misused to make inferences about causation. There are many reasons why this line of research is important but causation is not at the top. Sexual abuse is a profoundly disruptive experience for many people and may contribute to a variety of negative outcomes in adulthood. Finding appropriate clinical and ministry responses may be clouded by focusing on the trauma as a cause of same-sex attraction.'

I don't think anyone would disagree that "Sexual abuse is a profoundly disruptive experience for many people and may contribute to a variety of negative outcomes in adulthood"

Are you saying that you think a homosexual orientation is a "negative outcome"? Or that you think childhood sexual abuse causes homosexuality?

The fact that there are a few studies showing that gay people report childhood sexual abuse at slightly higher levels than straight people does not mean that gay people are more sexually abused as children. Only that they are more willing to report it. It also does not prove that sexual orientation is caused by childhood sexual abuse.

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say.

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Pennsylvanian1

I'm sure your attempt at changing the subject, in order to deflect criticism away from the OP, is considered clever among your pals, however, this thread is not about sexual molestation, nor the possible causal factors associated with the homosexual condition.

If you would like to gather responses relating to the long term effects of child sexual abuse, perhaps you should start a thread.

Is not the OP what Michelle Bachman said in that speech?

Have you even read it? My post related directly to her speech.

Are you trying to deflect away from the fact that she is incredibly ignorant and prejudiced against gay people?

Or that it is the fringe far-right religious anti-gay groups that are constantly misquoting and misrepresenting anything to do with homosexuality and gay people?

The fact that Bachmann even used the word Satan and gay in the same sentence is enough to think her a loon, let alone her other claims.

Homosexual "condition"? LOL.

Pals? What "pals" are you referring to?

Personally, I'm starting to think one of the long term effects of child sexual abuse is a propensity towards extremist religious fundamentalism and an obsession with sex.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

I don't think anyone would disagree that "Sexual abuse is a profoundly disruptive experience for many people and may contribute to a variety of negative outcomes in adulthood"

Are you saying that you think a homosexual orientation is a "negative outcome"? Or that you think childhood sexual abuse causes homosexuality?

The fact that there are a few studies showing that gay people report childhood sexual abuse at slightly higher levels than straight people does not mean that gay people are more sexually abused as children. Only that they are more willing to report it. It also does not prove that sexual orientation is caused by childhood sexual abuse.

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say.

No, I am not saying that it is necessarily negative or that sexual abuse causes it. Reporting stats among homosexuals also does not necessarily mean that it is because they are more willing to report sexual abuse - it's possible but it depends - futher or more careful studies need to be done. I do not think there is one cause but I do think that sexual child abuse can affect orientation.

My main point though is that homosexuality could be the result, like other psychological problems, of abuse and neglect and not just reduced to 'I was born that way.' If so, why do we get so angy if one suggests they might be that way or for finding out, through therapy, about why they have such orientation? In saying this it would not necessarily mean that they are less stable - although from what I have read alot of thier relationships and lifestyle can be very unstable - but as noted before not all homosexual relationships are as such. And even if it is as such that in itself would not necessitate a change in orientation - it is just about finding out the truth about a complex human pattern of behavior. But it seems no wants there to be such reasons for fear that it might lend itself to more pressure to change or that it might be possible to do so and people just want to not examine such possibilities and say that nothing can be done about it because it is determined to be so.

I hope that is more clear.

[AnUnidentifiedMale]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

My main point though is that homosexuality could be the result, like other psychological problems, of abuse and neglect and not just reduced to 'I was born that way.'

Perhaps that's how people become homophobic too.

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

Perhaps that's how people become homophobic too.

Well, you must be an expert, and the issues surrounding homosexuality are settled to the point that someone can not even make possible suggestions regarding it. Furthermore, the suggestion is in direct realtionship to the studies at issue so it not just me pulling some possibility out of left field.

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Well, you must be an expert, and the issues surrounding homosexuality are settled to the point that someone can not even make possible suggestions regarding it. Furthermore, the suggestion is in direct realtionship to the studies at issue so it not just me pulling some possibility out of left field.

Well there have already been many studies and a lot of research on child sexual abuse. Sadly for those who are desperate to find a post-natal cause for homosexuality, there is no evidence to show that homosexual orientation is caused by child sexual abuse or parenting.

The reason this is even an issue is because there are are religious groups that cannot accept that homosexual orientation is innate. (as is heterosexual orientation). If people are born that way, they don't know how to reconcile that with their beliefs that it is a "sin". Therefore to them, it must be chosen, or at the very least, have some other cause like childhood sexual abuse or mental illness. Something that can be "cured" or that people can "choose" not to be.

I think there needs to be studies and research into why certain people become born-again religious fundamentalists. Clearly there is evidence of psychological problems with many of these people.

Perhaps it's from sexual abuse as a child?

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Well there have already been many studies and a lot of research on child sexual abuse. Sadly for those who are desperate to find a post-natal cause for homosexuality, there is no evidence to show that homosexual orientation is caused by child sexual abuse or parenting.

The reason this is even an issue is because there are are religious groups that cannot accept that homosexual orientation is innate. (as is heterosexual orientation). If people are born that way, they don't know how to reconcile that with their beliefs that it is a "sin". Therefore to them, it must be chosen, or at the very least, have some other cause like childhood sexual abuse or mental illness. Something that can be "cured" or that people can "choose" not to be.

I think there needs to be studies and research into why certain people become born-again religious fundamentalists. Clearly there is evidence of psychological problems with many of these people.

Perhaps it's from sexual abuse as a child?

Well then I guess its a settled issue - its innate.

[Pennsylvanian1]

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Is not the OP what Michelle Bachman said in that speech?

Have you even read it? My post related directly to her speech.

Are you trying to deflect away from the fact that she is incredibly ignorant and prejudiced against gay people?

Or that it is the fringe far-right religious anti-gay groups that are constantly misquoting and misrepresenting anything to do with homosexuality and gay people?

The fact that Bachmann even used the word Satan and gay in the same sentence is enough to think her a loon, let alone her other claims.

Homosexual "condition"? LOL.

Pals? What "pals" are you referring to?

Personally, I'm starting to think one of the long term effects of child sexual abuse is a propensity towards extremist religious fundamentalism and an obsession with sex.

Again, the thread, at the outset, asserted that Michele Bachmann stated 'in her own words', that gays are part of satan. Yes, I did read the article, and re-focusing on a different part of the article, when the entire article cannot be used to support the OP's original assertion, begins a whole new argument.

I, as well as others, are well aware that most homosexuals either completely disregard the bible, receive a different meaning from certain scriptures believed to pertain to homosexuality, or believe that the bible itself is archaic, outdated, or has little to no value as a basis for morality in this present day. I get it!

What I don't quite understand, is why those identifying as homosexual, continue to pretend to be unaware of mainstream Christian beliefs. I am somewhat aware of Hindu beliefs, have spent 5 straight years in Japan, where buddhism is widely practiced, and have studied a little about the religion of wicca. I am Christian, and therefore, at least according to my belief, the aforementioned religions practice their belief in a way contrary to my own, and yet, it has never occurred to me to call them 'nutcases' as the original post has so labeled Bachmann.

Though Bachmann's words were twisted to suit the OP's actual intent, which was to somehow characterize her as a crazy person, even though she never said that "Gays are part of satan", had she mentioned Heaven, Hell, Angels, or demons, in addition to satan, why the feigned reaction of surprise, as though homosexuals never knew that the largest percentage of Christians believe in an unseen God, a virgin born, crucified and resurrected Savior, believed to be the Son of God, A Holy Spirit, as well as the kingdoms of Heaven and Hell, the inhabitants there-in, as well as strongly maintaining the belief that the bible is the inspired word of God given to men, and that homosexuality, (one form of sexual immorality), is commanded against.

These beliefs are not unique to any political platform, Christian body of believers, race, or nation, and the fact that Bachmann is not ashamed of what she believes does not qualify her, or any other bible believing Christian, as a nutcase. Now, you might ask, so you agree with her? You believe that gays are part of satan? Thankfully I don't have to respond to that, seeing that no one ever made the claim, but I do believe that sin is a part of life, and that God sent his son to free people from the curse of sin, which was in effect, since the time of Adam and Eve's disobedience, and that freedom, salvation, and entry into the tangible realm of Heaven, comes through Christ alone.

With approximately 1/3 of the world practicing some form of Christianity, one would assume that the homosexual community would have heard by now, of its theological adherences. Pretending to be shocked each time a Christian declares their faith, or that homosexuality is not a practice condoned by most within their faith, is simply another employed, yet ineffective, tactic of homosexual propenents. Homosexuals do not have the right to categorize the millions of Christians who believe the bible, (not the fringe religious groups, such as Unity Churches, perverting scripture in order to create allowances for their own pleasures), as less intelligent, or that they are somehow intellectually compromised.

Christians are not simply going to fade off into the annals of history, and there will always be opposition to the behavior/lifestyle/unions of homosexuality. Try not to act so surprised the next time you hear someone mention their faith. Naivite is not one of the more common traits among the homosexual crowd.

As for sexual molestation, I have said before that it is not the sole cause of same-sex attraction. Children, in adulthood have exhibited multiple manifestations of emotional distress causing various effects, including same-sex attraction. One could claim that any connection between child sexual abuse and same-sex attraction in adulthood is merely overstated coincidence, but I would disagree.

[maja]

Originally Posted by Jaymax

The fact that Bachmann even used the word Satan and gay in the same sentence is enough to think her a loon, let alone her other claims.

.

You mean like you just did?

[geeoro]

Michele Bachmann in Her Own Words: ‘GaysAre Part of Satan’

She is going to need more than God's help to become President........ Idiot!