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One of the major problems with socialism is that it sets no limits to its expansion into the society.
So there's a huge risk of it leading to a tyranny. Which has happened many times over the course of history.
One of the major problems with socialism is that it sets no limits to its expansion into the society.
So there's a huge risk of it leading to a tyranny. Which has happened many times over the course of history.
The statement "socialism...sets no limits to its expansion into the society" doesn't really make sense, since different forms of socialism imply different forms of governance, which would in turn entail the establishment of "limits".
In other words, this is a blanket statement which is, especially considering the fact that we are discussing social democracy and democratic socialism, largely untrue.
You are incorrect in saying that "The very basic idea of Socialism is to be a Social Democrat," as most Socialists find the Social Democrats to be Capitalists in disguise more than anything else.
They do believe in capitalism, I said that in another post. They do believe in certain programs that, if carried on throughout the whole of the government, would bring about Socialism.
I do see where you are coming from, I don't necessarily consider Social Democrats to be Socialists, but it's that step before.
I'm a market socialist. I believe in widespread free market competition on the local and regional levels, strict regulation on the national level, nationalization of essential commodities, public ownership of utilities, and exceptionally strong regulation of multinational corporations.
The very basic idea of Socialism is to be a Social Democrat, and then a Democratic Socialist is even further left. However, there seems to be a gap between the ideologies of Democratic Socialists and the full on members of Socialist Party USA. What kind of Socialism would fill in that gap between the two ideologies/parties?
Democratic Socialists, such as the esteemed labor leader Walter Reuther, activist Dorothy Day and the author of our Pledge of Allegiance, happen to be to the right of the Socialist Party in America.
One of the major problems with socialism is that it sets no limits to its expansion into the society.
Well that is one thing that marks the difference between Democratic Socialist, socialist and Marxist-Leninist and there variants such as Trotskyites and Maoist who believe in the concept of a one party state led by a "vanguard" party.
Democratic socialism is no more inclined to limitless expansion of state power than any other possible form of government including a representative democracy. A social democracy, as Europe has proven for more than 60 years is no more abusive to individual liberty than any other constitutional democracy.
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Which has happened many times over the course of history.
Only if you confine your examples to Marxist-Leninist regimes, which have always been out front regarding the preeminence of a proletarian dictatorship. Of course a counterfactual argument could be made that if they had been left to their own development, without constant external threats we have no idea as to what might have developed.
Coming from a socialist country it amazes me when people on here condemn "Socialism' and yet do not have the faintest idea how it works or indeed what it actually does.
I have repeatedly said on here that Socialism and communism act in two entirely different ways.
Communism as an ideal can never work as it implies that everyone has equal everything and that is impossible so the Communist Countries end up more like a dictatorship with the wealthy and powerful "controllers" having the lions share of the wealth, power and decission making and will keep their wealth etc at all costs, while the poorer less wealthy work harder and get much much less. ( remind you of anywhere?????? lol )
Socialism has a safety net for anyone in society whoFalls into hard times, sickness, unemployment etc. The main doctrine is that the whole is more important than the few. Socialism has to work under certain constraints or it would fall apart and be easy prey for the work shy or anyone who wants to "scam" the system. No one in the UK, for example, has any problem with paying tax for the benefit of all (including themselves) as they know that by paying taxes for health, education, welfare etc will benefit themselves too and to shoot yourself or your family in the foot just because you have some kind of indignant phobia about someone getting benefit from your tax is self defeating. Even though resentment can occur when you look at certain people getting benefits when they refuse to work for it, we also realise that by having the i'm 'alright Jack" is far more harmfull to everyone than having a good welfare state.
Socialism cannot work on its own and in a vacuum and neither can Capitalism.... they must work hand in hand for the benefit of everyone. America has socialism but it is reserved for the wealthy, Govt. bail outs etc.
I love it when i hear from the "anti Socialism brigade" here who sing a completely different tune when they lose their jobs or healthcare.... then it becomes OK for the Govt. to step in with financial help. I saw the wealthy in California wanting Govt. payouts to rebuild their multi million dollar homes after they had been devestated by forest fires.... "not our fault' they cried.... well it's not someones fault either if they get Cancer but of course the less well of are "at fault" in not having or being able to afford health care....... This double standard and hypocracy is rife in the USA. It becomes the Socialist boogeyman if the poorer want help but a 'right" if the wealthy want a handout. Socialism is used as the big bad excuse so as not to help anyone but the wealthy.
Socialism must have restraints and checks to make sure it is not abused but so does Capitalism otherwise it becomes a system that is one sided and unfair to many.
Democratic Socialists, such as the esteemed labor leader Walter Reuther, activist Dorothy Day and the author of our Pledge of Allegiance, happen to be to the right of the Socialist Party in America.
Well that is true and what is so ironic, is that social democrats like the Reuther brothers and others were in the forefront of the war against communism in the American labor movement, which with only a few examples has never chosen to take a socialist approach to the relationship between labor and management. A stark distinction from European labor unions.
Where would the social democrat model fit in America? Far left or just left. I would guess true socialists are pretty rare (5%?).
I would say I am a pretty moderate, and somewhat socially conservative democrat. I also believe a strong private sector is essential.However, I feel that health care, clean air and water, some constraint on corporate power (the work for the people, not the other way around) are necessary. Industry will always seek to privatize gains and socialize costs. Such a self-serving ethos coupled with aggregating political power is a slow moving march toward tyranny (witness Murdoch). It must be balanced somehow. Would that be social democrat, or plain old democrat?
My god, we are two pages into a discussion about socialism that has yet to be marked by crazies or ad hominem attacks! Am I on the right forum???
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