Is a Fascist Strain Rising in America? (parade, ethic, health care)

[MiamiRob]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

It seems to me in reading these threads that there are a number of people who are increasingly embracing a staunchly conservative, antiintellectual, antiimigrant, evangelical Christian, anti liberal, pro-military, pro-corporate power model for America. In this thinking there is one acceptable flavor for America and all other varieties are unAmerican options to be stomped out, whether they are athiest, gay, muslim, leftist, environmentalist, or whatever. And when you try to discuss things with these folks you get an endless stream of parroted vacuous slogans (Hussein Obama is a MUSLIM, global warming is a HOAX, tax cuts increase revenue!), and a complete unwillingness to consider ANY fact that does not fit in their ideological orthodoxy. In fact, any information, even from hundreds of senior scientists will be rejected, attacked, or ignored by political spinmeisters. This is pushing us away from a balanced, informed way to run our society, where ideas are constantly refined in light of new information and research, towards fanaticism.

This seems to me to be largely similar the rise of 20th century European fascism. I fear a reactionary, aggressive, intolerant world view that carves us into the chosen people and the scapegoats is taking over our country. Some will say it is the left, but I would have to say the far left socialists have been in retreat since Carter, perhaps before. This time it is coming from the far right.

White people on City-Data be "scurred! does Messicans and illegals and those Jersey Shore whores! Does "ghettos blacks" from Nawlins/Chocalate City! But don't mind Ted & Muffy huffing METH because our white kids are going to rehab next week!

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

a genuine concern that the hyperpartisan mudslinging and spinning has eroded the common ground in America.

Partisan? They HAVE no side. The only 'side' they have is avoiding responsibility as if it were a profession, which is 180 opposite the basis of the Republican party. They have no political identity save for picking fights and deflecting accountability. They've been hollowed out of principles from within and blame liberals for what it is they've done to themselves. I'm not liberal or progressive, but no way in hell are they conservative. No one gets r (in it's formerly noble sense) when they vote republican.

Correct observation- common ground is compromised because they aren't in defense of democracy or the constitution. They have no intention of getting along, committing themselves to intellectual honesty, or contributing to the table with pragmatic solutions. Terrorist is as terrorist does.

So why do you persist with irrational expectations of reason? Judged strictly by their words and deeds, beyond pundit portraits, they're unfit for their own citizenship. It's deliberate even if they're unaware of how they've been duped.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by ergohead

The U.S. Constitution is too extreme for the New World Order.

What better way to achieve new world order than oligarchy class using a political party to assault it's own nation to dissolve it's sovereignty? Divide and conquer is as old as the hills, but right wing is convinced it's vast left wing conspiracy why they've been led down the garden path by their own selling their soul for a bag of silver. Listen to nouveau riche, they only want to be on the winning side consequences be damned.

How many recall the strategies communist Russia intended to deploy to destroy America from within? When Koch/ Birch claims to be against them but uses identical tactics to service their own agenda, they are the monsters they claim to be against in plain sight. Ayn Rand was absinthe to the conservative mind, but it wasn't liberals opening up an absinthe factory that bankrolled an absinthe think tank delivering them to the state their in today.

[jwm1964]

Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas

Oh shut up.

Seriously, we get nowhere with these statements of hyperbole. Really, we don't. In fact, I think inflammatory comments like this (when used in the context of serious discourse and not just trolling for fun) are a large part of the problem. I think people have become so accustomed to watching four people sit in a circle on Crossfire or FoxNews and insulting each other that we've forgotten how to have a balanced, even if occasionally animated, arguments. I've actually voted Republican before and I'd probably do so again in the future if it weren't for attitudes such as the one you've expressed. But when I look at conservatives today, the first words that come to mind are 'extreme', 'borderline insane', 'angry', and otherwise bitter about losing power. So if you want people like me to start voting red again, start showing a little more respect and class and stop resorting to nonsensical and outrageous remarks.

Obama is no fascist and if you really think that, you have little or no education in this department. Obama was voted into office, and in the elections since he has obviously been stripped of much of his executive influence. The problem we now have isn't Obama's unilateral, unopposed executive authority; it's that we a serious clash between an executive and elements of his party up against the opposition that has enough constitutional power to arrest the agenda. Consequently, there is serious gridlock. That is the problem. People see that, and they feel the consequences of it, and the longer this continues, the idea of a super strong leader, Republican or Democrat, becomes increasingly attractive to voters who just want *someone to do *something.

As I said, I won't draw parallels to Nazi Germany, but similar conditions do exist in some respects. Hitler came to power because the German people perceived the German government as fractured, deadlocked, and incompetent, even if it was democratic. The people were desperate enough to sacrifice democracy in the name of order and strong leadership, which tells us a lot about how human nature really works.

Hey CFB!

Roys is not trolling, he is stating his beliefs as is Fiddle. This should concern all of us when people who disagree on almost everything else, begin to agree on one thing - We are moving towards facism in America today.

Under George Bush we began a series of wars under the pretense of protecting America. This made sense in lieu of what happened on 9/11 however the lack of any clear objectives and the definition of success to allow us to leave were never made clear and the military occupation of the Middle East during the enitre Bush Presidency grew steadily as the 'mission' changed from destroying the militant arm of Islam to Nation Building.

Under Bush America accepted and embraced indefinite detainment and torture. We passed the Patriot Act severely impinging our rights and liberties guaranteed under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We also authorized the use military personnel to act against the citizens of this country on domestic soil under the sole discretion of the sitting president in direct conflict with The Posse Comitatus.

I personally believe there was an escalation in belligerence and violence by domestic law enforcement during this same period of time.

Then we voted for Obama who promised to end the wars (bring our troops home), stated he did not support the Patriot Act and pointed out that he voted against it. He further criticized the political right for Guantanamo and condemned torture.

After Obama was elected he expanded the wars in the Middle East. I know some will argue that this is not true because we have less troops staged in the Middle East than before he took office, but the reality is we have expanded the War into more countries using less troops. (this reminds me of president Clinton saying he didn't perjure himself because "It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." –Bill Clinton, during his 1998 grand jury testimony on the Monica Lewinsky affair


Worse than Bush, Obama arbitrarily commits troops to new engagements claiming authority from International Organizations in violation of the laws of our Sovereign Nation.

Under Obama those on the political left who opposed the Patriot Act under Bush, fought and won to extend it under Obama with Obama's support and direction. What does this mean? That the president opposes dictatorial powers for other sitting presidents, but they are OK for himself?

We still have troops acting against U.S. Citizens on domestic soil. We still have those termed 'enemies of the state' detained in Guantanamo, and although some of the more publicized and sensational forms of torture have been stopped other forms of torture continue in Guantanamo today.

In my personal opinion domestic law enforcement under Obama has escalated even more than under Bush with SWAT style tactics by Federal agents being used against U.S. citizens for

- alleged permit and licensing issues by organic CO-OPs
- defaulting on student loans
- supplying medical marijuana as legally authorized by the state of residence to dispensaries (the Feds say the issue is the corporations providing this service are making too much money - since when is it the business of government in a free society to dictate how much money we can or cannot make?)

Obama has authorized more Federal Enforcment positions to enforce compliance with what is popularly termed "Obamacare". So he will criminalize and incarerate 'We the People', the citizens of this country for refusing to participate in his social medical program <- This is acceptable in a free society?

It is a vaild argument (not saying beyond refute) but a valid argument to state the escalation to a police state (facism) has accelerated not
reversed itself under the Obama Admiinstration.

Here is an interesting speech by Obama chastising Bush
for indefinite detention while at the same time justifying it for himself.

I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts concerning these issues.
Not fighting with you or calling you names etc. etc. but what do you think and how do you feel about these issues? We are both citizens of this country and these issues impact both our freedoms and quality of life. We, me and you, are not enemies to each other.

[harborlady]

Originally Posted by MiamiRob

White people on City-Data be "scurred! does Messicans and illegals and those Jersey Shore whores! Does "ghettos blacks" from Nawlins/Chocalate City! But don't mind Ted & Muffy huffing METH because our white kids are going to rehab next week!

Oh good grief! As if these people are normal. The closest aspect of normal these people portray is the nasty habit of vanity. Unfortunately people make slaves of themselves to service their vanity/ insecurities, and it becomes an open door for Madison avenue to sell them one brand of crack after another after another.

[jwm1964]

Originally Posted by harborlady

What better way to achieve new world order than oligarchy class using a political party to assault it's own nation to dissolve it's sovereignty? Divide and conquer is as old as the hills, but right wing is convinced it's vast left wing conspiracy why they've been led down the garden path by their own selling their soul for a bag of silver. Listen to nouveau riche, they only want to be on the winning side consequences be damned.

How many recall the strategies communist Russia intended to deploy to destroy America from within? When Koch/ Birch claims to be against them but uses identical tactics to service their own agenda, they are the monsters they claim to be against in plain sight. Ayn Rand was absinthe to the conservative mind, but it wasn't liberals opening up an absinthe factory that bankrolled an absinthe think tank delivering them to the state their in today.

And the left wing as you exemplify accuse the right.
So 'We the People' continue to bicker amongst ourselves while the politicians on both sides of the aisle continue to sell us out to Big Oil, International Banking and Foreign Interests.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Partisan?

Like the hacks that you've certainly become.

Originally Posted by harborlady

They HAVE no side.

The geometrical universe theory has been wrong for a very long time.

Originally Posted by harborlady

The only 'side' they have is avoiding responsibility as if it were a profession, which is 180 opposite the basis of the Republican party.

We've had enough of the point and blame tactics that your side has only been able to come up with, gotcha politics to the most extreme.

Originally Posted by harborlady

They have no political identity save for picking fights and deflecting accountability.

You progressives own the most divisive president in the history of space-time.

Originally Posted by harborlady

They've been hollowed out of principles from within and blame liberals for what it is they've done to themselves.

The democratic congress is responsible for 5.912 trillion of the national debt. They did that in 4 years.

Originally Posted by harborlady

I'm not liberal or progressive, but no way in hell are they conservative. No one gets r (in it's formerly noble sense) when they vote republican.

Run away as fast as you can, I don't blame you.

Originally Posted by harborlady

Correct observation- common ground is compromised because they aren't in defense of democracy or the constitution.

And your party of 12 is just a-o-kay.

Originally Posted by harborlady

They have no intention of getting along, committing themselves to intellectual honesty, or contributing to the table with pragmatic solutions. Terrorist is as terrorist does.

What a horribly dishonest assessment of who the terrorist really are. You've pushed for some of the dumbest plans in the history of space-time and now you're removing yourself from that blazing endorsement. Go figure.

Originally Posted by harborlady

So why do you persist with irrational expectations of reason? Judged strictly by their words and deeds, beyond pundit portraits, they're unfit for their own citizenship. It's deliberate even if they're unaware of how they've been duped.

You exemplify partisan hackery.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

Super Congress Getting Even More Super Powers In Debt Deal

During the tea party siege, one commentator said it was ironic that those who wanted smaller government had given birth to the least representative, most aurhoraitan body we have ever had. They should remember that those who USE reactive elemenents to their own means eventually are done and dump them by the roadside. Who do they blame then?

I see the Tea party as the "brownshirts" of the authoritian movement. When they don't like the result, they'll find themselves alone. Reactive elements are only of use when you need scare tactics. Reactive elements have NO place, regardless of politcs, in an authoritan power structure since its ALL about control.

Note, I have said nothing about anyone's politics here. Everyone behaved badly and held the people hostage. I'll never touch anyone associated with any tea party ties, but then I don't much think anything good of the other side either. Its to be a decision come 2012 of which ones might do the least harm.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

During the tea party siege, one commentator said it was ironic that those who wanted smaller government had given birth to the least representative, most aurhoraitan body we have ever had. They should remember that those who USE reactive elemenents to their own means eventually are done and dump them by the roadside. Who do they blame then?

I see the Tea party as the "brownshirts" of the authoritian movement. When they don't like the result, they'll find themselves alone. Reactive elements are only of use when you need scare tactics. Reactive elements have NO place, regardless of politcs, in an authoritan power structure since its ALL about control.

Note, I have said nothing about anyone's politics here. Everyone behaved badly and held the people hostage. I'll never touch anyone associated with any tea party ties, but then I don't much think anything good of the other side either. Its to be a decision come 2012 of which ones might do the least harm.

You were told to have at least a $4 trillion dollar reduction in spending or be downgraded. You choose $1.5 trillion and were downgraded and you were surprised.

You were also told that if you're going to get your fiscal house in order you need to stop spending $1.1 trillion a year.

The wrong people in this situation are reactionary too, they just don't know what to react to.

[jwm1964]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

During the tea party siege, one commentator said it was ironic that those who wanted smaller government had given birth to the least representative, most aurhoraitan body we have ever had. They should remember that those who USE reactive elemenents to their own means eventually are done and dump them by the roadside. Who do they blame then?

I see the Tea party as the "brownshirts" of the authoritian movement. When they don't like the result, they'll find themselves alone. Reactive elements are only of use when you need scare tactics. Reactive elements have NO place, regardless of politcs, in an authoritan power structure since its ALL about control.

Note, I have said nothing about anyone's politics here. Everyone behaved badly and held the people hostage. I'll never touch anyone associated with any tea party ties, but then I don't much think anything good of the other side either. Its to be a decision come 2012 of which ones might do the least harm.

Citizens forming a loose alliance to hold their representatives accountable to the constiuents are brownshirts?????

You make no sense.

Citizens holding elected officials accountable are somehow puppets of the officials they are holding accountable.

What an assinine statement.