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Old 09-28-2011, 07:40 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,204,998 times
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The 10th Amendment has been a moot point since the Civil War (actually since the Whiskey Rebellion). There are no states rights, only Federal control.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,954,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The real problem with this country today is that the people do not have any education in the basic principals of the human rights this country was founded on.

First and foremost, the founding fathers believed every man was a sovereign, and that his rights as a sovereign were his at birth, and that it is governments that refuse to acknowledge those rights.
That a government may not acknowledge your rights, in no way means they do not exist.

It is the duty of every sovereign to stand against government tyranny and the illegal assumption of powers not given to government by the people.
Governments are entities of evil, run by ambitious corrupt men who desire to rule over others.

They are to be mistrusted and restrained less they become the masters instead of the servants they are intended to be.
I’m not one to idolize the Founding Fathers. They were men like us, with no special pipeline to a higher wisdom. I do think you are bastardizing their beliefs, however. What they believed was that individuals had certain basic rights (except for slaves), not that they were the sovereign. They believed the States were the sovereigns.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:42 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,204,998 times
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
you would still be reading your bibles to the light of kerosene lanterns.
You'd be watching TV by candle light!
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:46 AM
 
913 posts, read 872,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
The 10th Amendment has been a moot point since the Civil War (actually since the Whiskey Rebellion). There are no states rights, only Federal control.
and we need to get them back
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:47 AM
 
913 posts, read 872,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
You'd be watching TV by candle light!


hahahaha brilliant!!!
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:49 AM
 
913 posts, read 872,947 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I’m not one to idolize the Founding Fathers. They were men like us, with no special pipeline to a higher wisdom. I do think you are bastardizing their beliefs, however. What they believed was that individuals had certain basic rights (except for slaves), not that they were the sovereign. They believed the States were the sovereigns.
yes, but they had fought against a tyrannical central govt and knew that in order to protect liberty they had to disperse power
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,458,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
There is no evidence that most of the interstate would've been built irrespective of the federal government. It surely wasn't getting built. Most of the states that the interstate goes through just didn't have money to build such a system. Many of the mid-west states have large land masses and little population base to provide those resources. To assume it would happen anyway is a huge assumption. Maybe the highway tooth fairy would provide the money?

It just seems as if you are using every possible excuse to justify not building the Interstate System, which should be obvious to everyone, was a very good idea.

First, thanks for the complement. Second, I'm already acknowledging that there is more than one way to do something. I'm not denying the private sector has a role but the hard-right denies that the government has a role -- even in such basic areas as public works. If the Romans felt that way, they'd never have had roads, sewers or aqueducts.
Just because it may be good for the nation does not necessarily make it legal or constitutional. Besides the Interstate system, which is based upon a gross bastardization of the Post Roads Clause of the US Constitution, the Louisiana Purchase also violated the US Constitution, even though it undoubtedly benefited the nation.

If we complain about the federal government violating the US Constitution when it is not to our advantage, would we not be hypocrites if we did not complain about the federal government violating the US Constitution when it is to our advantage?

Regardless whether it is good or bad for the nation, the federal government still had to violate the US Constitution in order to accomplish their objective.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,954,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Just because it may be good for the nation does not necessarily make it legal or constitutional. Besides the Interstate system, which is based upon a gross bastardization of the Post Roads Clause of the US Constitution, the Louisiana Purchase also violated the US Constitution, even though it undoubtedly benefited the nation.
So, your argument is that the Interstate Highway system and the Louisiana Purchase are both good ideas that were unconstitutional. I don't see the case against either.
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:50 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,060,237 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The real problem with this country today is that the people do not have any education in the basic principals of the human rights this country was founded on.
Ok...

Quote:
First and foremost, the founding fathers believed every man was a sovereign, and that his rights as a sovereign were his at birth, and that it is governments that refuse to acknowledge those rights.
That a government may not acknowledge your rights, in no way means they do not exist.
Well that's fascinating come on the heels of your opening statement considering that the rights of indentured white people (Celts excepted in some jurisdictions from the definition of white free or other wise), non-property owners, women, or persons of African descent simply didn't exist and sure as hell weren't acknowledge by a goodly number of the "founding fathers".

Quote:
It is the duty of every sovereign to stand against government tyranny and the illegal assumption of powers not given to government by the people.
Governments are entities of evil, run by ambitious corrupt men who desire to rule over others.

They are to be mistrusted and restrained less they become the masters instead of the servants they are intended to be.
Great stuff for a pamphlet, not much practical meaning or grounds in reality.
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,290,858 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
I’m not one to idolize the Founding Fathers. They were men like us, with no special pipeline to a higher wisdom. I do think you are bastardizing their beliefs, however. What they believed was that individuals had certain basic rights (except for slaves), not that they were the sovereign. They believed the States were the sovereigns.


Another victim of public education!

Do you even understand what sovereign means?

In its simplest meaning, it is ownership. Being sovereign means, you have ownership of yourself, your own life, you are not the property of anyone else.

A subject by contrast, is the property of their King. They enjoy only what privilege the king chooses to allow them.

Our States are not sovereign, and neither is the Federal government. They derive whatever power they have from the people.
The people are sovereign.
No government official is superior to a citizen. No citizen can be judged by the government; only by their equals, other citizens.
Any power not specifically given to government directly by the people, is retained by the people, from which all power is derived.
Any power government usurps without direct vote of the people is illegal.

These were the standards the founding fathers fought and died to pass on to ungrateful and undeserving people like yourself, who now do not even understand the concepts of freedom.
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