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Smoking is an addiction. Addicts do not act rationally. I have seen this over and over again. I've seen it a lot here on CD. In many threads, the smokers say if the non-smokers don't like being around smokers, the NSs should find a different restaurant, bar, motel, etc. It should be the other way around. The smokers are the ones using a dangerous product.
It's not the addiction of the thing, it's the principle.
Since roughly 80% of the adult population does not smoke, smokers are a decided minority. I always tell non-smokers there will come a day when something you do the vast majority of people don't do or like including me and you'll need me to stand up in defense of you.
If it's unhealthy, stupid, unnecessary, pointless, and creates a burden on society, I won't be doing it anyway.
So don't worry about it.
The other day, somenone's yard guy was lying on my grass smoking for his 'break.' I left knowing there would be butts left there. When I came back a few minutes later, lo and behold, there they were on the ground, tossed there like every other damn smoker I've ever known (except myself - I never did that even ONE TIME). So I picked them up and threw them all into his truck.
And no. It isn't that hard to quit. It just seems like it.
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt Smoking is an addiction. Addicts do not act rationally. I have seen this over and over again. I've seen it a lot here on CD. In many threads, the smokers say if the non-smokers don't like being around smokers, the NSs should find a different restaurant, bar, motel, etc. It should be the other way around. The smokers are the ones using a dangerous product.
You, like most others, completely miss the point. It's not about the Rights of the "smoker to smoke"..... no such Right exists. It IS about the Rights of the property owner who owns the diner to decide if he/she wants to let people smoke on his/her property.....
If I'm smoking in a diner, and the owner doesn't mind it, than why are you so special as to think you have any Right to say otherwise? On the other hand, if you're sitting in a diner where the owner doesn't want people to smoke, and I light up, I should be kicked out.
I stopped smoking in October of 2013. As a former smoker, I can see both sides of the issue. It is a real pain when smoking bans are enacted and smokers are relegated to a small patio out behind the bar because they can no longer smoke inside. However, I lean in the direction that smokers rights end when they infringe on the rights of the non-smoker. I detest going to a bar or club that allows smoking because I don't like smelling it and I don't like smelling like it. It's also proven that secondhand smoke is dangerous, possibly moreso than firsthand smoke.
I hear that logic a lot and some use this "anti smokers dysfunction syndrome" horsehockey to shutdown others who think that they should tell smokers what is wrong. This was created by a theory of a writer who posts on c-d from time to time. One of the fallacies is that he claims that people with asthma ARE NOT affected by smoke. I can tell you from personal experience, he's wrong. And rather than those who are anti-smoking, perhaps it is the smoking addicts who neurotic because smoking can actually cause mental issues. Smoking and Mental Health
NOTE: I'd link ASDS if it wasn't wacked out theories with little basis for the claims in the theories.
ASDS is merely a collective term used to describe other problematic traits commonly exhibited by anti-smokers. For example, narcissism. Paranoia. Neurosis.
All very real symptoms that are common amongst anti-smokers, brought under the collective umbrella of one term.... ASDS.
I think they are made villains when other habits are ignored that are at least as harmful. I do think tho smokers should themselves not expose others to their smoke and then there wouldn't have to been any rules or laws. After all many smokes produced by man are harmful to people. Have a friend who owned a Bar B Q place for decades. He died of lung cancer from what autopsy said was smoke exposure when cooking it in confined area. Never smoked cigarettes a day in his life. Like so often we tend to make ourselves such villains by our actions or lack of.
I stopped smoking in October of 2013. As a former smoker, I can see both sides of the issue. It is a real pain when smoking bans are enacted and smokers are relegated to a small patio out behind the bar because they can no longer smoke inside. However, I lean in the direction that smokers rights end when they infringe on the rights of the non-smoker. I detest going to a bar or club that allows smoking because I don't like smelling it and I don't like smelling like it. It's also proven that secondhand smoke is dangerous, possibly moreso than firsthand smoke.
You are confusing the issues at play here. Quit using this draconian term "smokers rights"..... Smokers do NOT have any special rights just because they are smokers. The issue here is PROPERTY RIGHTS!!
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It is a real pain when smoking bans are enacted and smokers are relegated to a small patio out behind the bar because they can no longer smoke inside
That's too bad. It doesn't matter how inconvenienced the smoker is. If they are told they have to smoke outside by the property owner, than that's the way it is. However, if the smoker wants to smoke inside, and the property owner wants to allow it, than who has any right to say otherwise?
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I lean in the direction that smokers rights end when they infringe on the rights of the non-smoker
Again, there are no special set of Rights bestowed on someone just because they smoke. What about the property owners rights though? Shouldn't he have a say on whether or not to allow smoking? Then, people who don't want to be around the smoke can choose not to go to his place of business. If I'm smoking somewhere and the owner allows it, and you enter, no one is infringing on your Rights. You made an informed decision to go somewhere knowing you'd be exposed to smoke.
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detest going to a bar or club that allows smoking because I don't like smelling it and I don't like smelling like it.
So because you don't like smelling smoke, you think it's okay to trample on the property rights of the owner and tell him what he can or can not allow on his property? Just don't patronize places that allow smoking.
If I go some place that burn candles ( which studies show are just as toxic as Second Hand Smoke ) and I don't like the smell of them, do I have any right to tell that business they can't burn them anymore?
I think they are made villains when other habits are ignored that are at least as harmful. I do think tho smokers should themselves not expose others to their smoke and then there wouldn't have to been any rules or laws. After all many smokes produced by man are harmful to people. Have a friend who owned a Bar B Q place for decades. He died of lung cancer from what autopsy said was smoke exposure when cooking it in confined area. Never smoked cigarettes a day in his life. Like so often we tend to make ourselves such villains by our actions or lack of.
But see, if I go to a bar that allows smoking, and I'm smoking in there, and then you enter, knowing that it allows smoking, I'm not exposing you to anything, you are willingly exposing yourself to it.
It's not a property owner's rights issue bc there are TONS of health regulations imposed on restaurants, etc. So your argument is that these establishments should be able operate without hygiene and other health regulations bc someone owns the place? (If they even own the place - usually those spaces are leased.)
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