Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting thread. From a the point of view of this American, I don't see a difference between displaying the flag of the Confederacy and displaying the flag of North Korea, Iran, Cuba, etc... If Al-Qaeda had a flag, I would equate the two as well. The C.S.A was a hostile nation that attempted to destroy the United States of America and killed its people on its own soil. I don't understand why that's something to be celebrated. For me it has nothing to do with racism, state's rights or any other issue besides the fact that the C.S.A was a nation-state formed with the sole purpose of tearing apart the single greatest nation the world has ever seen.
The people celebrated (Lee, Davis, Jackson, Forrest, etc...) by those who display the flag were traitors on the order of Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen. The real heroes of the Civil War were men like Lincoln and Sherman. Again, it has nothing to do with freeing the slaves-it's about the fact that they saved what the C.S.A attempted to destroy. Had they succeeded, both nations would have perished or become third world shells of their former selves. People should thank God everyday that the North won the war. If we hadn't, Nazism, Fascism, and Communism would have overrun the entire world by now without the help of the Superpower that the United States was able to grow into. If I could stop and talk to someone who displayed the flag of the Confederacy on their car, etc... I'd ask them-"Do you consider yourself an American?"
Careful Badfish, I got negative repped (as "flaming") and then suspended after engaging some members here by saying the exact same thing. You'll be called ignorant and uneducated by sons of the Confederacy, and then slapped down by a mod for defending yourself.
Just a warning to those who might dare stand up to the Confederate pride onslaught. Your point of view will find no sympathy by those who still think the South got a bad rap. It's a fight that I am hereon staying out of, and anyone of similar opinion may do well to so the same!
Interesting thread. From a the point of view of this American, I don't see a difference between displaying the flag of the Confederacy and displaying the flag of North Korea, Iran, Cuba, etc... If Al-Qaeda had a flag, I would equate the two as well. The C.S.A was a hostile nation that attempted to destroy the United States of America and killed its people on its own soil. I don't understand why that's something to be celebrated. For me it has nothing to do with racism, state's rights or any other issue besides the fact that the C.S.A was a nation-state formed with the sole purpose of tearing apart the single greatest nation the world has ever seen.
The people celebrated (Lee, Davis, Jackson, Forrest, etc...) by those who display the flag were traitors on the order of Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen. The real heroes of the Civil War were men like Lincoln and Sherman. Again, it has nothing to do with freeing the slaves-it's about the fact that they saved what the C.S.A attempted to destroy. Had they succeeded, both nations would have perished or become third world shells of their former selves. People should thank God everyday that the North won the war. If we hadn't, Nazism, Fascism, and Communism would have overrun the entire world by now without the help of the Superpower that the United States was able to grow into. If I could stop and talk to someone who displayed the flag of the Confederacy on their car, etc... I'd ask them-"Do you consider yourself an American?"
I'll reply on this... ESPECIALLY the bolded part. If you feel that Lee, Davis and Jackson are simply traitors then you have obviously done ZERO research into any of them.
NOT A ONE OF THEM were for secession. NOT ONE. Lee and Jackson fought out of a sense of duty to their home state and Davis..... Well Davis was kind of an odd one, but he was Unionist....
And I'm unsure how many people bang the gong at Nathan Bedford Forrest, OUR HERO, but we ALL know why you chose him instead of JEB Stuart or James Longstreet or Jubal Early or John Singleton Mosby, etc.....
Careful Badfish, I got negative repped (as "flaming") and then suspended after engaging some members here by saying the exact same thing. You'll be called ignorant and uneducated by sons of the Confederacy, and then slapped down by a mod for defending yourself.
I do find city-data useful, but if someone bans me for simply expressing an opinion I'll gladly go elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAFury
I'll reply on this... ESPECIALLY the bolded part. If you feel that Lee, Davis and Jackson are simply traitors then you have obviously done ZERO research into any of them. NOT A ONE OF THEM were for secession. NOT ONE. Lee and Jackson fought out of a sense of duty to their home state and Davis..... Well Davis was kind of an odd one, but he was Unionist....
They took up arms against the United States of America, plain and simple. I could care less what their personal convictions were (I did know that by the way, it just doesn't change anything for me) with regards to secession. Ames and Hanssen probably didn't ultimately wish the destruction of the United States, but they took part in a larger conspiracy to destroy it for no other reason than to enrich themselves. Should we let them out of prison? IMHO they should have been hanged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAFury
And I'm unsure how many people bang the gong at Nathan Bedford Forrest, OUR HERO, but we ALL know why you chose him instead of JEB Stuart or James Longstreet or Jubal Early or John Singleton Mosby, etc.....
I threw him in just for the hell of it. A Confederate soldier is a Confederate soldier whether you're talking about Stonewall Jackson or a lowly private. They took up arms against their own countrymen in an unjust war which threatened the existence of the United States of America. I'll end with this-I (obviously) am a Northerner, but I live in a rural area. I'm no stereotypical "Yank" that a Southerner would think of (but I proudly identify myself as a "Yankee"), I drive a truck, hunt and fish and I love the outdoors. However, I find that I often see the flag emblazoned on the back of a truck, on a t-shirt, hanging from a front porch, etc...in some of the more out of the way places I go. Since everyone from New Jersey is moving to the South I SERIOUSLY doubt many (if any) of these folks have any southern heritage whatsoever. They probably couldn't name one general that fought for, or for that matter, the president of their beloved C.S.A-if they even know that's what the southern states called themselves. It's just plain ignorance.
I do find city-data useful, but if someone bans me for simply expressing an opinion I'll gladly go elsewhere.
They took up arms against the United States of America, plain and simple. I could care less what their personal convictions were (I did know that by the way, it just doesn't change anything for me) with regards to secession. Ames and Hanssen probably didn't ultimately wish the destruction of the United States, but they took part in a larger conspiracy to destroy it for no other reason than to enrich themselves. Should we let them out of prison? IMHO they should have been hanged.
I threw him in just for the hell of it. A Confederate soldier is a Confederate soldier whether you're talking about Stonewall Jackson or a lowly private. They took up arms against their own countrymen in an unjust war which threatened the existence of the United States of America.
Well if knowing all of that you still feel this way. I'm not going to attempt to argue with you no matter how wrong I think you are. No point in bashing our heads against the wall here..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
I'll end with this-I (obviously) am a Northerner, but I live in a rural area. I'm no stereotypical "Yank" that a Southerner would think of (but I proudly identify myself as a "Yankee"), I drive a truck, hunt and fish and I love the outdoors. However, I find that I often see the flag emblazoned on the back of a truck, on a t-shirt, hanging from a front porch, etc...in some of the more out of the way places I go. Since everyone from New Jersey is moving to the South I SERIOUSLY doubt many (if any) of these folks have any southern heritage whatsoever. They probably couldn't name one general that fought for, or for that matter, the president of their beloved C.S.A-if they even know that's what the southern states called themselves. It's just plain ignorance.
And I don't expect you to read back, but I mentioned this phenomenon awhile back where almost exclusively people that display the Battle Flag/Naval Jack of the Confederacy in the North ARE trying to convey some form of racism and lamented this fact as a LARGE part of the reason that northerners feel this symbol is nothing but a symbol of hate.
Here's the relevant portion of what I posted before....
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAFury
Another point of note is that when the Confederate Battle Flag/Naval insignia (Truth is that the one everyone sees is the naval insignia, but people don't realize... The battle flag was square in shape) is flown by someone or some group in the North somewhere it almost ALWAYS is a symbol of hate. No wonder they figure that's all it can mean because their own racist bretheren are draping themselves in it and basking in their own ignorance.....
We believe that which we see every day. I've split time between living in the North and South (and time in Florida which doesn't count as either... ). I'm a converted Yankee basically half of my family is from Connecticut and the other from Kentucky (but definately the Confederate half)....
To me, the Confederate flag is a symbol of states' rights, self-determination, honor, courage and bold defiance against authoritarian government. I also see it as a historic symbol of pride in one's Southern heritage—a heritage in which I proudly share.
Unless you're a professional racial-grievance profiteer like Je$$e Jack$on or a socialist-"progessive" busybody in the educational or media establishment, the Confederate flag should not offend you at all.
Wow, this is the thread that never ends. I may as well add my 2 cents.
Despite what the flag defenders want to believe about the flag, a large percentage of the population will view it negatively. It is associated (maybe incorrectly) with white supremacy, treason, lynchings, etc and thats just the way it is.
I respect that you see the flag as a historic symbol of Southern heritage, but it won't make me stop thinking, "oh there is another racist." Its a stereotype. I'm sure I would like lots of you if I met you, but that flag is a turn off for people.
You guys can debate causes of the war, Lincoln's motives, whether or not Robert E Lee was a traitor, etc, and that is all very interesting and though-provoking but at the end of the day, the Confederate flag still has negative connotations.
As an American, I support your right to fly the Conferderate battle flag and interpret it how you like. I don't care for it though.
Well if knowing all of that you still feel this way. I'm not going to attempt to argue with you no matter how wrong I think you are. No point in bashing our heads against the wall here..
Points well taken. I'm glad that there are still some classy people who can argue without getting nasty over the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancasterNative
To me, the Confederate flag is a symbol of states' rights, self-determination, honor, courage and bold defiance against authoritarian government. I also see it as a historic symbol of pride in one's Southern heritage—a heritage in which I proudly share.
It may be a symbol of all of those things, but as I said before, we Northerners cannot be expected to agree with the symbol of a nation formed with the sole purpose of destroying us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LancasterNative
Unless you're a professional racial-grievance profiteer like Je$$e Jack$on or a socialist-"progessive" busybody in the educational or media establishment, the Confederate flag should not offend you at all.
I'm not any of those things. I am, however, a stubborn, cantankerous, proud Yankee who would rather die than see the United States of America perish from the earth. Dividing a sovereign country is a terrible thing. I am of Irish ancestry and actively support Irish Northern Aid and Sinn Fein because I believe that Ireland will never be free until the British remove all troops and let them alone.
As an American, I support your right to fly the Conferderate battle flag and interpret it how you like. I don't care for it though.
Here's a thought-do you support the right to burn the American flag? I do not, and personally, I do not think the 1st Amendment protects such an act, and that it should be considered a crime. I see the display of the Confederate flag on U.S. soil as being no different than burning the American flag. I noticed that a thread has been started about the veteran who cut down the Mexican flag which had been flown OVER the American flag at a bar in Nevada. I wholeheartedly agree with what this man did, and I'm glad that he did it because it was a blatant insult to the United States of America and the flag. I would venture to say that many who have posted in this thread would agree with me with regards to what the veteran did. Why then, is it still seen as ok to display the Confederate flag?
Here's a thought-do you support the right to burn the American flag?
Yes, I support the right to burn the flag. Why should it be a crime? Its a piece of cloth. It doesn't define who I am as an American. It symbolizes what America is about. One of those things is freedom. Freedom to do things I don't necessarily like. Such as burning the flag or displaying a Confederate flag.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I understand that it may be a southerners way of showing pride in being "Southern", but on the other hand, to me it represents two things:
1) secession from the Union, which although at the time, they may have felt they were right, now - 142 years after the end of the civil war - it seems almost traitorous. I don't mean that as an insult, so please don't take that the wrong way, but hanging that confederate flag is like a foreigner hanging their flag here after we defeated them in war - as a sign of defiance.
Like I said - my perspective may be wrong about this, and I stand corrected if I'm wrong, and apologize if I've offended anyone.
2) It does seem racist, simply because the main perception of the South during that (civil war) era was that they wanted to keep "their way of life", which included enslaving an entire race for their own gains / wealth. A confederate flag is a constant reminder of a time when we as a country were in bitter turmoil, and a state of complete ignorance concerning human rights, dignity, etc.
This is merely my opinion. I found the question to be interesting, and I wanted to respond.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
re: confederate flag
