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Old 12-10-2011, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,496,495 times
Reputation: 4185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Freedom to choose or not choose a religion; the government should not establish a religion but that does not mean the country is atheist. We were founded on religious principles. Liberals are trying to deny it and indoctrinate our children. Read the link.
I read the link, up to the point that I realized the author can't spell or punctuate, does not know the difference between John Adams and Samuel Adams, and believes evolution is unproven. That was enough crap for me; I'm not a masochist.

 
Old 12-10-2011, 09:25 AM
 
59,277 posts, read 27,446,336 times
Reputation: 14331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco View Post
Most religious beliefs are based on the threat of some punishment or promise of a reward from some invisible sky daddy. Are you actually trying to say that Christians don't believe that all non-Christians will be punished for all eternity in the afterlife? I find it very odd that you don't think that the threat of torture is not force or coercion.
I don't know where YOU get your "information" from but, you are wrong in your assertions.

I went to Catholic schools for many years. we were NOT taught, "that Christians don't believe that all non-Christians will be punished for all eternity in the afterlife".

You don't believe, fine, I can accept that, but, the problem is YOU won't accept anyone else s beliefs. Insulting them and trying to ridicule them only shows how shallow YOU are.
 
Old 12-10-2011, 09:28 AM
 
59,277 posts, read 27,446,336 times
Reputation: 14331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Removing the ten commands from the court house was not the removal of religion from this state institution - It was the removal of law from a place that was to uphold and dispense the law...Religion and state have always been intertwined... What has to be kept seperate is the idea that some use religion and twist it for political gain..This happens in the middle east and it happens in America. No person should speak as if they are the spokes person for GOD....god does not need a mouth piece...I guess that is the reason that the constitution keeps these creeps at bay..to make sure that a person does not start playing God...for the simple reason is that human beings always screw things up when they play God - they are just not very good at it! So they should be excluded form the political arena - and rightfully so - God does not need a voice nor does he have one...and almost no human being can speak from the mind of God - unless he is family - Like that Jesus guy...but the state punished him for being a big mouth...One way or the other...keep your devine thoughts to yourself.
as someone said, "All the warmth and charm of an unflushed toilet".
 
Old 12-10-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,200,586 times
Reputation: 21745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
I don't know where YOU get your "information" from but, you are wrong in your assertions.

I went to Catholic schools for many years. we were NOT taught, "that Christians don't believe that all non-Christians will be punished for all eternity in the afterlife".

You don't believe, fine, I can accept that, but, the problem is YOU won't accept anyone else s beliefs. Insulting them and trying to ridicule them only shows how shallow YOU are.
Then you were not well-taught as that contradicts any number of papal edicts.

For example, in Humanus Genus issued by Pope Leo XIII all Americans are condemned to Hell for eternity, because they elect their leaders without consulting with the Pope.

The Imperial Roman Catholic Church truly does “speak proud words and blasphemies.” Some examples are:

1) The Imperial Roman Catholic Church claims (and continues to claim to this day) that the Pope is the head of the church. Paul, speaking of the supremacy of Jesus of Nazareth, states:

Colossians 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church, as well as the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead, so that he himself may become first in all things.

2) The Imperial Roman Catholic Church claims (and continues to claim to this day) that the Pope is the Judge of the Living and the Dead (see the Catholic Encyclopedia Volume XV). That is contradicted by any number of verses in the New Testament.

3) The Imperial Roman Catholic Church claims (and continues to claim to this day) that “it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman Pontiff” (see the Catholic Encyclopedia Volume XV).

4) The Pope has authority above all and is subject to no authority (a restatement of papal authority by Pius VI, who fortunately died in captivity before he could blaspheme again).

5) The Pope holds “upon this earth the place of God Almighty" (a restatement of papal authority by Leo XIII, who must have taken a brief time out from berating and condemning the United States and Americans to issue forth more blasphemy).

6) The Pope “has from on high an authority which is supreme, above all others and subject to none" (a restatement of papal authority by Pope Pius XI in 1929 after Mussolini gave the pope 100 acres of land for Vatican City, paid reparations and recognized its sovereignty).

How sad is it than an atheist has to educate a christian?
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:02 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,965,809 times
Reputation: 15935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Atheism is also a religion. There is NO freedom FROM religion in this country. You are allowed to practice if you choose to or not practice if you choose to.
At the opening ceremonies of the US Constitution Center here in Philadelphia (about a decade ago) the keynote speaker was (then) US Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. She said explicitly that the US Constitution guarantees both freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

I guess we can all understand the concept of freedom of religion ... you have the right to choose your religious affiliation; you are not forced to belong to this denomination or that one. Churches, synagogues, mosques, Hindu and Buddhist temples, etc., can operate without hindrance or restrictions.

What about freedom from religion? My own extrapolation is that means (as backed up by Supreme Court decisions) children in public schools are not to subjected to some kind of formal prayer; non-believers are NOT required to swear on a Bible, there shall be no state sanctioned preference for religion nor any kind of proselytizing or evangelizing on the part of government entities.

I welcome any information or clarification on these points.
 
Old 12-11-2011, 12:11 AM
 
Location: California
37,155 posts, read 42,278,198 times
Reputation: 35041
Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Freedom to choose or not choose a religion; the government should not establish a religion but that does not mean the country is atheist. We were founded on religious principles. Liberals are trying to deny it and indoctrinate our children. Read the link.


School indoctrination alive and well - Social liberal agenda pushed in public schools - Youngstown Trumbull County Conservative | Examiner.com
You mean non religious people, not liberals. If you insist on slapping lables on everyone at least use them correctly. The country isn't anything, it's only what people in the country are. The people make the laws, define the words, etc. And every so often the people change their minds and redefine everything.
 
Old 12-11-2011, 01:56 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,612,787 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
So atheists are afforded no freedoms since they don't follow a religion? And FYI, the entire Bill of Rights was incorporated into the States with the passing of the 14th Amendment. And I assure you, you should be dang glad that happened.
Yes, as an atheist you are free to be an atheist and you don't have to pay taxes to a church. If it wasn't for the Constitution, you wouldn't allowed to be an atheist and you'd pay taxes for what ever established religion.
 
Old 12-11-2011, 02:02 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,612,787 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Mon View Post
To be clear there is absolutely no restriction on an individual praying in school or in any government building. That is violation of your right of free exercise. Conversely, your kid's second grade teacher cannot lead the class in facing Mecca for daily prayers.
That, that I placed in bold...go give that a try today and just see how far you get. If you stop to pray in a government building you'll be arrested for loitering and if you bow your head in school to pray, some one will make a case of it. Seriously, give it a try.
 
Old 12-11-2011, 02:19 AM
 
Location: California
37,155 posts, read 42,278,198 times
Reputation: 35041
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
That, that I placed in bold...go give that a try today and just see how far you get. If you stop to pray in a government building you'll be arrested for loitering and if you bow your head in school to pray, some one will make a case of it. Seriously, give it a try.
Nobody will say anything to you unless you make a pest of yourself. Seriously, give it a try. You just aren't that important for anyone to notice.

Almost every school has a Christian club or some other religious group on campus BTW, and people pray all the time at school. Nobody gives a f...

What EXACTLY do you think would happen? Details please.
 
Old 12-11-2011, 02:19 AM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,612,787 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
They should not erect religious symbols on public property in the first place, because it is public property.
See that is why I am glad I don't have a gov office job. I would not be able to put up a little Christmas Tree (free to express) or a Cross in my office! Not to mention saying a blessing at lunch time before I eat.

Doesn't matter if I am offended for not being allowed to do so...as long as I don't offend the others...
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