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Old 01-16-2012, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,899,643 times
Reputation: 4512

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Agreed.

Yes, there is. This representation is provided by the elected officials and their agents.

[therefore, vote wisely]
Yeh, but we've tried that, but when we elect officials to represent us on behalf of the unions, the unions get butthurt and try to influence a recall and reelection. Vicious cycle eh
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,477,038 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Yeh, but we've tried that, but when we elect officials to represent us on behalf of the unions, the unions get butthurt and try to influence a recall and reelection. Vicious cycle eh
I didn't say it was perfect but it's what we have.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
For now, MIke. Within the next 20 years, many state pensions will fail. Since the majority of taxpayers are not in the public unions, well can't raise their taxes and win re-election. So like the town in Alabama that stopped paying pensions, and like several large cities in Bankruptcy now who while still paying, will most likely get usual BK court bargains, things will change. Demographics is working against this special interest group. State governments are majority GOP now, and will stay that way, as even the lefties often cross over cause they (quiet now) don't want to pay higher taxes, and they know their party is in BED with the unions.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,080 posts, read 20,477,038 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
For now, MIke. Within the next 20 years, many state pensions will fail. Since the majority of taxpayers are not in the public unions, well can't raise their taxes and win re-election. So like the town in Alabama that stopped paying pensions, and like several large cities in Bankruptcy now who while still paying, will most likely get usual BK court bargains, things will change. Demographics is working against this special interest group. State governments are majority GOP now, and will stay that way, as even the lefties often cross over cause they (quiet now) don't want to pay higher taxes, and they know their party is in BED with the unions.
I'm under no illusion that the 'system' will be the same in 20 years. As a local government employee, I'm watching the state of California do things that make me wonder, frustrated, cringe, etc. It's bad, bad, bad here. I expect that there will be a demand by somebody somewhere that my contribution be increased, my pension reduced, and/or the age I can retire to be elevated. We are all going to have to take a bit of this poison.

[something is going to break - a lot]
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:54 AM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,430,619 times
Reputation: 1257
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
If private sector unions are to protect workers from unfair labor practices from the part of evil capitalists and corporations, are public sector unions meant to protect workers from evil taxpayers, you know the ones who pay their salaries?
Taxpayers aren't the ones who decide what the pay and benefits and working conditions are. Public service unions no more protect workers from taxpayers than private sector unions protect unions from customers
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:00 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,443,995 times
Reputation: 4070
Lightbulb What are public sector unions for?

Seems they're very effective at raising the blood pressure of low information conservatives.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Vermont
11,760 posts, read 14,656,809 times
Reputation: 18529
Unions exist to represent the workers, to negotiate on their behalf, to represent them in matters relating to wages, hours, and working conditions, and to generally protect their interests. They partially serve as a counterweight to the power of management, which, in the absence of organized labor, would have the power to impose its will arbitrarily and to treat the workers unfairly and without regard to workers' rights.

Management's treatment of labor over the centuries has demonstrated the need for workers to organize themselves into unions in order to have a hope for fair treatment, safe working conditions, and decent wages and benefits.

Public employers are no less likely than private employers to exploit the workers, to underpay them whenever possible, to disregard their need for safe working conditions, and generally to treat them unfairly.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:19 AM
 
17,401 posts, read 11,978,162 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I don't know, why would any city managers sign the contract?
You've just identified the big problem. Usually the managers on that side of the table have the best interests of the company in mind, and you have checks and balances. But with public sector unions, the manager that is supposed to be protecting their company (govt) gets elected thanks to the union's campaign contributions. So it's in their best interest to put the union's interests at the front, screwing the taxpayer.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,224,629 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
If private sector unions are to protect workers from unfair labor practices from the part of evil capitalists and corporations, are public sector unions meant to protect workers from evil taxpayers, you know the ones who pay their salaries?
They are here to rape the tax payers of our money
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,483 posts, read 11,285,313 times
Reputation: 9002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
You've just identified the big problem. Usually the managers on that side of the table have the best interests of the company in mind, and you have checks and balances. But with public sector unions, the manager that is supposed to be protecting their company (govt) gets elected thanks to the union's campaign contributions. So it's in their best interest to put the union's interests at the front, screwing the taxpayer.
Not to mention that most of the management is actually unionized themselves.
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