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Old 02-23-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,481,395 times
Reputation: 4185

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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
stormin norman DID want to go all the way into iraq and take hussein down
Yeah, and I want to go all the way into Taylor Swift, what's your point?

Even a clown like Dick Cheney knew invading Iraq in 1991 was a terrible idea. And even if it wasn't, it wasn't the kind of decision generals get to make in a free country.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,364,082 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
Chemical weapons are not weapons of mass destruction. They aren't long range. Iraq could have killed the same amount of people with conventional arms. Besides, we didn't even find chemical weapons during the invasion/occupation. We found nothing.
Wrong chemical weapons are generally considered WMD. Range is not necessary for a weapon to be of 'mass destruction.' Otherwise a suitcase nuke would not fit the definition of WMD.

We know that Saddam had chemical weapons, because we know he used them on the Kurds, Iranians, and tried but failed to use them on the Shiites in Iraq. Secondly most people believed that he still had them in 2003 due to his strategy of 'deterrence by doubt,' which he confirmed was his strategy in interrogations after his capture. He primarily wanted the Iranians to believe that he still had WMD. Moreover, even his own senior officers believed that he still had them. This was later confirmed by Abdallah al-Mullah Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization. Even his senior officers were used to being kept out of the loop, because that's how Saddam operated. He trusted no one.
That we didn't find them doesn't matter. Suppose a guy goes into a bank wearing what looks like a vest rigged with explosives. Wires sticking out, etc, and he's holding what looks like a push button remote control. He grabs a teller as hostage and threatens to blow the place up. Distracted for a second, he puts down the remote and a police sniper takes him out with a double tap to the head. It turns out the 'bomb is a fake, with no explosives inside at all, and the guy was just mentally ill. Do you jump all over the cop for shooting him? No, of course not. Only a fool would come to such a conclusion.

Yet many on the left attach great significance to the fact that no WMD were found in Iraq. It shows a real failure of basic logic and a lack of ability to think clearly even when it comes to the simplest of issues.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,972 posts, read 22,157,422 times
Reputation: 13803
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
To be honest, I don't believe for a minute that Iran is within 10 years of having a nuclear weapon.

We should just keep in line with the UN and keep out of the fray on this one.
Keep in mind that Saddam was able to move banned material, that would have fit in several semi-tractor trailers, which was identified by, and tagged by, the UNSCOM inspectors, just before the US invasion. So it was very possible to have moved several more trailers full of material.

That aside, you point is valid, we cannot be positive of what Iran's plans are for a nuclear bomb, and to trust intelligence estimates is always very risky. However, Iran is refining nuclear materials, and to say otherwise is to ignore the facts.

We have a country with a totalitarian and erratic leadership, who organizes it's population to chant "death" to other nations, and to not be very worried about them acquiring a materials to build a nuclear bomb would be foolish.

what if you had a crazy neighbor living next to you, and he started each day by shouting over the fence, for the death of you and your wife and kids. Then let's say you called the police, and were forced to eventually take the man to court, and the judge took away his right to own a gun. Then let's say you saw him bring a shotgun home with him, and started to make his own shotgun shells. Would you be worried for the safety of your family, or just tell yourself that everything will be okay, cause you have "911" on speed dial, in case he kills your children while playing in the yard?
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,594,283 times
Reputation: 16439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Let's face the facts:
War helps military contractors and weapons manufacturers.
War just might improve the economy.
And last, but not least, and most important: War is fun!!
War doesn't improve the economy, that's a dangerous myth. The government has to borrow huge amounts of money and increase the public debt in order to conduct a proper war. Sure, some tank makers might increase some jobs temporarily, but the net result of huge debt is lower credit ratings, which means more expensive interest, which means more debt, which means less confidence in the economy, which leads to recession and depression.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
To be honest, I don't believe for a minute that Iran is within 10 years of having a nuclear weapon.

We should just keep in line with the UN and keep out of the fray on this one.
As usual, the US thinks they know best and have the "right information" at their fingertips.

WE are the bully in the sandbox here and have been for some time.
If WE say it's true then it must be and the world better accept that.

At least until we invade and find out the opposite. Then it's "my bad" and find another excuse to continue bombing.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:36 PM
 
25,848 posts, read 16,532,741 times
Reputation: 16026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
War will give patriotic Americans a chance to wave their flags and produce patriotic bumper-stickers.
Not this time for me, after all these years I have finally learned.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,437 posts, read 7,370,953 times
Reputation: 7979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
Americans are stupid. You repeat a lie enough and many will assume it's true.
True enough, it got Obama elected.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:45 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,054,795 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
To be honest, I don't believe for a minute that Iran is within 10 years of having a nuclear weapon.
That's about the sum total of the issue.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,972 posts, read 22,157,422 times
Reputation: 13803
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Wingnuts, do we need to go thru this again, really?
Or Bush could have just done it Libyan style, 0bama's way, attacked Iraq on Friday, gone golfing, and then send an "oh, by the way" letter to congress on Monday.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:49 PM
Itz
 
714 posts, read 2,199,579 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
The GOP propaganda would be in full force to get even more insane spending, lives lost, and another war to keep bankrolling their fascist war machine if they ever got into power again, you betcha'

You should really pay attention to current events instead of idiotic messages.
We are already taking military action against Iraq.. It is proposed we will be at war by summer. Obama has been partying to much and keeping the American public in the dark about his doings there. We have put 12k more troops in Kuwait in preparation, deployed ships to the gulf and have launched air raids on the Iranian people

ALREADY.. how is the GOP a war mongering machine? You should really pay attention to what REALLY is going on.
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