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I think a good 80% of this is conditioned. Men in other cultures are also very touchy feely, and women in some (Scandinavia) are not.
Exactly. European men and women from the Mediterranean regions are generally (particularly when you compare them to their Nordic counterparts) very touchy-feely, expressive and warm with everybody irrespective of gender. And the younger they are (I'm talking about adults), the more obvious this is.
marriage is not the goal. complete integration of open homosexuality into the community is the goal.
that is why the resistance.
people are grossly opposed to open sexuality of any kind. its a christian nation.
many support gay marriage inc me. those who wait on tip toe to see gay marriage will see the next wonder very soon, gay divorce.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
You don't like the fashion and the dancing parts?! That is Broadway, LOL
Well I don't think they are bi or lesbian 'through social conditioning.' I am bi. I think naked women are more fun to look at naked then men, but actually men are sexier overall (yes, I said it). This might sound dumb but a lot of it has to do with fashion; women can wear all types of outfits that can make them sexy whereas men don't really have that many choices. So, maybe it's more of a visual thing?
I don't know about all that sticking up for women, I just read in that booty call thread where you said, 'what year was she born in.'
You said naked women were more fun to look at but then you talk about the outfits they wear?
Do you think maybe it's because women are always presented as being the sexy ones? Would you think the same 300 years ago, when most women were pale-skinned, plump, did not have boob jobs, shave, had masculine faces? Methinks not. I think it's artificial and it's social conditioning. I can see why women these days would be viewed as more sexy, but you're bi though so it kind of confirms my hypothesis that culture (porn, for instance) is re-wiring women's brains and making them more bisexual than they would be in a natural setting. Historically men were more bisexual so that's the explanation I'm going with. Nothing against bis, just don't believe women saying women are sexier is innate.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by noela
Exactly. European men and women from the Mediterranean regions are generally (particularly when you compare them to their Nordic counterparts) very touchy-feely, expressive and warm with everybody irrespective of gender. And the younger they are (I'm talking about adults), the more obvious this is.
Despite this brew-ha about 'mateship' here I still feel relationships between men have an emotional distance between them. I find male bonding in other nations is more sincere, has more to do with actually connecting (instead of just sharing similar interests) and is more lasting. Like brothers, not really like lovers.
You said naked women were more fun to look at but then you talk about the outfits they wear?
Do you think maybe it's because women are always presented as being the sexy ones? Would you think the same 300 years ago, when most women were pale-skinned, plump, did not have boob jobs, shave, had masculine faces? Methinks not. I think it's artificial and it's social conditioning. I can see why women these days would be viewed as more sexy, but you're bi though so it kind of confirms my hypothesis that culture (porn, for instance) is re-wiring women's brains and making them more bisexual than they would be in a natural setting. Historically men were more bisexual so that's the explanation I'm going with. Nothing against bis, just don't believe women saying women are sexier is innate.
Yes women are more fun to look at naked IMO and yes they can wear sexier outfits then men. What's not to understand there?
I didn't live 300 years ago and neither did you, so it's basically irrelevant. Neither of us lives in that time period -- so get used to how things are now. Culture has not 'rewired' anything in my brain . If you knew me, you would know there is nothing about me that says I'm 'in' with popular culture excusing some of my entertainment choices. I would never pursue a relationship with a woman long term, I wouldn't enter a domestic partnership or adopt a baby with a woman. I don't care if other women do, just not for me. Just like you like to tell me all men are different, so are all bisexual women.....Honestly, I think you feel intimidated/threatened by all bisexual women b/c you think they don't care enough about men and more about other women. You want to strike up a debate on the validity of bisexuality, maybe there's someone that cares and wants to do that, I don't.
Is it maybe actually BECAUSE this society seems so obsessed with homosexuality? Like gay marriage, for instance, shouldn't that mainly apply to gay couples? Why do a lot of straights seem apparently interested in homosexuality? Like men having the lesbian fetish, for instance.
Yet men seem as paranoid as ever about being labelled 'gay.' Even if you are mistaken as gay, if it's tolerated, why would it be so terrible? A couple of people have thought I might've been gay (only a couple though). Honestly I didn't care.
Like men aren't allowed to have much physical contact with one another - even in more homophobic nations than Pakistan men hold hands and stuff, what gives? Not that I'm pining to hold my friend's hand or anything. Or what about short shorts or something, if people are so tolerant, why are so many people making fun of these guys for looking or acting 'gay'? It's so ridiculous. Since when did men become uncomfortable kissing each other on the cheek? Maybe the fact it's seen as sexual is because if a man kissed another man it would lead to more. I find it profoundly odd that it's only acceptable for women.
It's like everyone is being suspected of being gay these days. If a women watches lesbian porn it's normal, but if a man does even once he's gay? Why the annoying double standard? Sexuality isn't as fixed in stone anyway, people are still obsessed with labels and whatnot.
Cultures vary. Heterosexual men in the US tend towards homophobia. Religion is responsible for homophobia too. I don't know that most US men would feel comfortable kissing another man on the cheek even without the fear of ridicule.
And the lesbian porn you mentioned, isn't a mans fantasy two women? So, who's labeling it gay for a man to watch? But yeah, I agree women can get away with exploring different aspects of their sexuality without labels.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by virgode
Cultures vary. Heterosexual men in the US tend towards homophobia. I don't know that most US men would feel comfortable kissing another man on the cheek even without the fear of ridicule.
And the lesbian porn you mentioned, isn't a mans fantasy two women? So, who's labeling it gay for a man to watch? But yeah, I agree women can get away with exploring different aspects of their sexuality without labels.
This was the case 20 years ago. Then they hijacked the gay right's movement to normalize their behaviour while doing little to help bi men shake off these prejudices.
This was the case 20 years ago. Then they hijacked the gay right's movement to normalize their behaviour while doing little to help bi men shake off these prejudices.
Yes, because we are responsible for the public's views of bi men as well.
We didn't highjack the gay rights movement either; you are very intimidated by bi women and it's showing. (For a second I was starting to think you might be OK) -- but....right back where I started. You men, I tell ya; like clockwork, never fails!
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
Yes, because we are responsible for the public's views of bi men as well.
We didn't highjack the gay rights movement either; you are very intimidated by bi women and it's showing. (For a second I was starting to think you might be OK) -- but....right back where I started. You men, I tell ya. Like Clockwork.
If I am a bit it's because there's a double standard.
Many women are very intimidated by bi men. Why now, and not in historic times when bi men were more common, when they're celebrating their right to lick muff, trib and thrust, as if they were men? Man I hate how I like lesbian porn sometimes. I really need to get off it, sometimes it makes me sick how I still watch from time to time.
Exactly. European men and women from the Mediterranean regions are generally (particularly when you compare them to their Nordic counterparts) very touchy-feely, expressive and warm with everybody irrespective of gender. And the younger they are (I'm talking about adults), the more obvious this is.
Thank you for describing my ancestors. Being kissed, upon arrival, by aunts and uncles and cousins of both genders is them expressing their fondness for you. It is in no way sexual. God, Americans can be somewhat uptight that way. Other than being big smokers, the Southern Europeans seem to have healthier interpersonal relations in general. In California, people can be more "huggy" as of late, but I don't know how the rest of the nation stands on this one.
I think that men are ticked when someone assumes they're gay is because of the negative stereotypes associated, and sometimes validly so, with that orientation....fussiness about physique, clothing, proper eating, etiquette protocols, etc., which rivals that of a woman. Additionally, people tend to visualize what the sex that goes with that looks like. So, you may have a straight guy that is kind of beta, for lack of a better word, who styles hair or is an interior designer, and it might get annoying to him to be labeled based on assumptions about his occupational choice.
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. If you knew me, you would know there is nothing about me that says I'm 'in' with popular culture excusing some of my entertainment choices. I would never pursue a relationship with a woman long term, I wouldn't enter a domestic partnership or adopt a baby with a woman. I don't care if other women do, just not for me. Just like you like to tell me all men are different, so are all bisexual women.....Honestly, I think you feel intimidated/threatened by all bisexual women b/c you think they don't care enough about men and more about other women. You want to strike up a debate on the validity of bisexuality, maybe there's someone that cares and wants to do that, I don't.