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We used to pride ourselves on how Free our country was, but with each act, rule, and regulation that is passed, we become less free. NDAA, Patriotic Act, TSA in the airports and soon to be elsewhere, Super Spy Center being built that will be able to monitor not only entire free world but us as well.
Where does it end?
It is not just about the TSA alone.
One of the characteristics we used to prize in this country was Freedom.
The founding fathers escaped the Monarchs to get away from that and to be able to live freely as they please without all the things that impeded our life.
The phrase, "Those who desire safety and security over freedom, deserve neither"
This is not just a worn out cliche, but something they understood, and it is not different this time either. Human empires and civilizations rise and fall in cycles with the same consequences felt at the end of each one.
Nothing ever changes because the same rotten qualities that bring out the worst in humans just keeps getting repeated over and over.
So,...you really think removing our troops from the Middle East would neutralize the terrorist threat to America? You referenced the Muslim religion in your dialogue,...does that also include the part about eliminating the infidels,...those who are non-muslims?
Removing our troops from the region would eliminate 95% of the problem. The other 5% can be solved by putting the returned troops on our borders and securing them. To be sure, there will always be a sliver of radicals who would want to kill us just because we are non-Muslims, but it's a very very small segment of the Muslim population. With us out of the region, they won't be able to motivate common Muslims to join their cause. You hear of the average Muslim man abandoning his family, kids and career to blow himself up and if we were to blame the phenomena just on their religion, it will be ignorance on our part. They are aggravated and motivated by our occupation there. If we remove the motivation, the radical groups will soon whither away as their manpower and funds dry up.
Imagine if China decides that Communism is best for us and tries to impose it upon us by occupying us. Won't you fight them till your last breath? That's exactly what the Muslims too are doing. They don't want or need our "democracy". They are telling us "Get the hell out of our holy land."
You should read the writings of Robert Pape, Chalmers Johnson and Michael F. Scheuer. These guys are terrorism experts and former CIA operatives, and they will tell you the exact same things I am saying above.
These endless wars are morally wrong and economically impracticable. ALL great empires perish when they spread themselves too thin around the globe. Either we adopt a saner foreign policy, or we go broke and implode economically like the USSR.
Your call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11
As for flying,..what is your solution? Millions of Americans fly every year, and people like the "underwear bomber" and the "shoe bomber" have made it onboard aircrafts even with enhanced inspections. It is not clear how you would handle security at airports,...or if you would even try.
When I fly, although not often, I like to have a reasonable chance of reaching my destination without having a mid-air tragedy. Please advise the forum how you would ensure that reality.
Removing our troops from the region would eliminate 95% of the problem. The other 5% can be solved by putting the returned troops on our borders and securing them. To be sure, there will always be a sliver of radicals who would want to kill us just because we are non-Muslims, but it's a very very small segment of the Muslim population. With us out of the region, they won't be able to motivate common Muslims to join their cause. You hear of the average Muslim man abandoning his family, kids and career to blow himself up and if we were to blame the phenomena just on their religion, it will be ignorance on our part. They are aggravated and motivated by our occupation there. If we remove the motivation, the radical groups will soon whither away as their manpower and funds dry up.
Imagine if China decides that Communism is best for us and tries to impose it upon us by occupying us. Won't you fight them till your last breath? That's exactly what the Muslims too are doing. They don't want or need our "democracy". They are telling us "Get the hell out of our holy land."
You should read the writings of Robert Pape, Chalmers Johnson and Michael F. Scheuer. These guys are terrorism experts and former CIA operatives, and they will tell you the exact same things I am saying above.
These endless wars are morally wrong and economically impracticable. ALL great empires perish when they spread themselves too thin around the globe. Either we adopt a saner foreign policy, or we go broke and implode economically like the USSR.
Your call.
Sounds a little like the isolationist policies of the early twentieth century, a period where America sought to stay free of international involvement. That approach didn't work then,...and the world is a lot smaller now than it was then.
......isn't that what we had before the planes were hi-jacked and flown into the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and the field in Pennsylvania? Do you REALLY think that the airlines would be less intrusive if millions of the dollars were at stake due to their inability to recognize a bomb,...or a group/someone bent on using the aircraft in a similar manner to 9/11?
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea
Watch the latest "Southpark" for their skewering of the TSA. How they completely captured the mentality of the TSA and personified them so accurately was simply amazing.
Parker and Stone get closer to the real truth than ANY show on TV including the "news".
......isn't that what we had before the planes were hi-jacked and flown into the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and the field in Pennsylvania? Do you REALLY think that the airlines would be less intrusive if millions of the dollars were at stake due to their inability to recognize a bomb,...or a group/someone bent on using the aircraft in a similar manner to 9/11?
There is nothing isolationist about this foreign policy. Don't confuse isolationism with non-interventionism. Isolationism is where you don't have any contacts with the outer world, aka North Korea. Non-interventionism is where you don't mess with the internal affairs of the other countries, but rather maintain friendship and trade with them, aka Switzerland. This was the policy of our Founding Fathers.
"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington.
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson.
Looks like you don't know much about our history of involvement in the Middle East, if you think that we were miss goody two shoes before 9/11 and 9/11 just happened out of the blue. Our long held policies in the Middle East directly contributed to the tragedy of 9/11. I suggest you read up on the history of Iran, what we did there in 1953, and what caused the Islamic Revolution in 1979. Also read up on the history of Iraq, who empowered Saddam Hussein, who gave him chemical weapons, The Persian Gulf War, and our sanctions on Iraq. Plus, the history of the British Mandate of Palestine, and the Israel-Arab wars.
P.S: You didn't answer on how you would react if China were to do this to us. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, because we owe them money, not the other way around.
There is nothing isolationist about this foreign policy. Don't confuse isolationism with non-interventionism. Isolationism is where you don't have any contacts with the outer world, aka North Korea. Non-interventionism is where you don't mess with the internal affairs of the other countries, but rather maintain friendship and trade with them, aka Switzerland. This was the policy of our Founding Fathers.
"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington.
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson.
Looks like you don't know much about our history of involvement in the Middle East, if you think that we were miss goody two shoes before 9/11 and 9/11 just happened out of the blue. Our long held policies in the Middle East directly contributed to the tragedy of 9/11. I suggest you read up on the history of Iran, what we did there in 1953, and what caused the Islamic Revolution in 1979. Also read up on the history of Iraq, who empowered Saddam Hussein, who gave him chemical weapons, The Persian Gulf War, and our sanctions on Iraq. Plus, the history of the British Mandate of Palestine, and the Israel-Arab wars.
P.S: You didn't answer on how you would react if China were to do this to us. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, because we owe them money, not the other way around.
"What-ifs" re: China? Certainly wouldn't make me strap bombs and murder innocents,...or fly planes into buildings housing non-combatants.
As for the history in the Middle East,...I'll admit to being no expert,...will admit that mistakes were made, and that this country help prop up questionable regimes in Iran and Iraq. It seems that you wish to blame the United States for everything bad in the Middle East without considering the incessant wars throughout its history.
But the topic of this thread is about the TSA, and my concerns about safely flying the skies over the United States. Your plan is to revert to basically what existed before 9/11,...which allowed the death of 3000 innocents. I question that move.
As for the history in the Middle East,...I'll admit to being no expert,...will admit that mistakes were made, and that this country help prop up questionable regimes in Iran and Iraq. It seems that you wish to blame the United States for everything bad in the Middle East without considering the incessant wars throughout its history.
I don't blame the US for everything bad in the Middle East, but I certainly blame the US for most of the mess in the Middle East and for most of the things which are bad here at home now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11
But the topic of this thread is about the TSA, and my concerns about safely flying the skies over the United States. Your plan is to revert to basically what existed before 9/11,...which allowed the death of 3000 innocents. I question that move.
9/11 happened because of gross intelligence failures, or rather, intelligence was available, but those responsible to act upon it failed to do their duties. Instead of cleaning up those bureaucracies, it doesn't help to add in more bureaucracies.
TSA hasn't caught anyone yet. All they do is to grope people. Whoever has been caught, were caught by the people. TSA is a gaggle of elementary school rejects, retards and pervs who wouldn't be able to even spell 'terrorist', let alone catch one. I already proposed that the security responsibilities should be given to the airlines. Did you miss that? If not, what makes you think they won't do a good job? Also before 9/11, pilots were not allowed to carry guns (still don't). Pilots should be allowed to carry guns in the cockpits as a last line of defense.
I question your intelligence.
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