Do you have to be White/Black to consider yourself truly North American? (suspect, Canada)
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I'm seeing more and more chunky Asians with California or southern accents. It's hard not to think of a person as "American" if they speak like they came from the valley and look like they grew up on KFC, and McDs.
The only people I consider to be TRULY North American are Native American Indians.
There is no such thing as being a North American. People are only members of the country that they hold citizenship in regardless of where their ancestors came from or what race/ethnicty they are. Even the so-called natives that migrated here over the Bering Strait formed different tribes and settled in different areas on this continent. In today's world every continent including this one is divided up into different countries with borders. I am a U.S. citizen, not a North American.
The only thing I disagree with is babies born on our soil from illegal aliens parents being made instant citizens but that is a different topic.
We're all immigrants here, save the original indegenous peoples. Anyone that holds American values true and contributes to society is in fact a true American. Sorry if I don't slice it thinner than that.
We're all immigrants here, save the original indegenous peoples. Anyone that holds American values true and contributes to society is in fact a true American. Sorry if I don't slice it thinner than that.
No, most of our ancestors were immigrants. If you are born here you are a citizen, not an immigrant. Even the so-called indigenous peoples were immigrants. They didn't sprout up out of the ground like corn.
I dated a Chinese-American girl a few years ago who was going to law school at UCLA. She had been born and raised in San Francisco, which is basically the most "Chinese" city in America. We would get in discussions/debates about the fact that she was Chinese-American; she did, indeed, view herself as being not wholly "American," and thanked her Chinese heritage as one of the reasons that she had been successful in school and would be successful in life: that the culture made her more studious, more intelligent, more reverent of elders and authority figures. She couldn't wait to visit China for the first time with her family.
She came back angrily lamenting what an uncouth, dirty, unjust, unequal, and generally awful place it was, and defined herself as an "American" thereafter. She also became acutely aware of the fact that she was American over there, because people would point out how bad her Chinese was, tell her that she wasn't really Chinese, that she was, in fact, American - and that this was often thought of as disgraceful.
She did a lot of soul searching, and realized that nearly all of the people she ever met would immediately assume that she was, in fact, American when they first met her - they spoke to her in the same tone they'd speak to anyone else, assumed English was her first language, and that she really hadn't ever been mistreated due to her ethnic appearance. I think that generally, this is the case - you can be Indian, Asian, Middle Eastern, whatever... if you were born in the US and you dress like most other Americans, drive the same kind of car and live in the same neighborhood as everyone else, went to the same schools, listen to the same music and watch the same TV and movies... yes, you are inextricably American.
A good litmus test as well, to me, is to ask: if you were to take that person and put them down in their ancestral homeland right this minute, would they be able to orient themselves socially? Would they know where to go, who and what to ask, how to act? If not, they're American (or Canadian, French, English, etc etc).
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently. It's hard to be PC about this topic and I the best way to describe my point is by using an example*:
Let’s say my mom emigrated to the US/Canada in her teens from India with her parents. She subsequently married a man who emigrated in his teens from India as well. Both receive American citizenship. They have son who are born in the US. In the house only English is spoken (parents speak different dialects so English is the common language) and North American traditions and customs are widely adopted. Let’s say they’re not particularly religious. Can this son consider himself truly American/Canadian? His skin tone won’t be white so will he always be ‘Indian’ and be lumped together with those who just immigrated?
What if he goes on to marry a woman in the same boat as him and have children. Now these children will be born in the US/Canada, parents born in the US/Canada (and only speak English), grandparents, and great grandparents living in the US/Canada and have no ties whatsoever to India. Will they be truly considered North American? If they marry others in the same boat and have their own kids?… and so on?
What I mean by ‘considered’ North American is… I often read here on CD about neighborhoods being predominantly Indian or Asian or whatever it may be. I also have witnessed that when, for example, a family of Asians move into a predominately ‘White’ neighborhood, concern is raised that it will change the neighborhoods reputation (as much as you try to deny it, this mentality exists). At what point does skin color or ethnicity stop mattering? If you’re 2nd generation? 3rd? As long as you have an American accent? Once they start having mixed marriages and the children become more North American looking?
*This is by no means my actual history – just for argument sake.
FWIW- This is for discussion only. I’m truly curious, not trying to argue or be accusatory.
***I added Black in the title as I believe Black people are among the few visible minorities that do not fall victim to the "what's your background" type questions in my experience.
No you don't need to be Black or White, but you need to assimilate when you move to a nation with a culture that you were not born into. You don't move to the new nation and expect people to accommodate you with the language you bring, or the culture you bring. That plants the seeds of resentment among many people in the culture you are attempting to live in, especially when people who emigrate move into little enclaves of people of the same culture and ethnicity, they don't want to assimilate. Which is why limited immigration should be the standard instead of what we have today, because it doesn't give new immigrants enough time to assimilate into our culture, they live in ghettos among their own and it is very isolating to them.
You become "north american". If someone moved from North America to India, or Spain, or whatever other nation, they are not going to accommodate the North American by celebrating Victoria Day or the 4th of July, or Cinco de Mayo. Nor will it be easy to find typical North American products beyond Coca Cola on the shelf at the local market.
You don't forget your culture but you don't expect the new culture you move to, to change their way of life so you can live there.
All of these responses are ideal situations IMO. I really like the article about being Chinese-American and not fitting into the Chinese culture. This is exactly what I am getting at. But, your GF had a good experience-- people here in the US or Canada (I am adding Canada as I have seen this in both countries) don't always react this way. I have witnessed personally and American born Japanese person being spoken to in loud, slow, and downright condescending English (this was back when I was a teen and I worked PT in retail). I was so embarrassed and stepped in and spoke normally to her. These are the types of cases I am talking about.
I understand that once you assimilate, adopt cultures, have no foreign accent, etc., you SHOULD be considered American. But you aren't. This is the point I am getting at.
Back to the family I mentioned. They are American to the core. They have Indian names because their parents (who immigrated from India) gave them those names, but they are born here, raised here, wore a white dress/tux at their wedding, have Christmas trees, watch fireworks on July 4th, eat Turkey on Thanksgiving, had their own 4 children in the US, etc. You get my point. YET, when they were featured on this television show representing the town, with their American accents and all, people of the town flipped out (online). Comments like "Who casted for this show-- are we even in America?!" and "This will bring down the value of of town" (paraphrasing). It saddens me because it is the town I went to HS in. It's very small and I'm sure I know some of the anonymous people who've said these hateful comments.
So... in the real world... what does it take? Does it depend on income level (the town I mentioned above is very high income)? Is it age (family above is in their mid 30s)? Do you think the next generation to have kids will see it differently?
How long does it take for someone who is English to move to India and become Indian?
The dominant culture dictates what's acceptable. Which is why immigrants in the USA move into their ghettos and don't leave, and don't make an attempt to assimilate.
You don't move to a culture that is outside of your own and expect on demand that you're acceptable. It's a risk that people have to assume on their own that they may have a difficult time being accepted. You're not entitled to acceptance that's going to be decided on an individual basis depending on who you meet, but you're entitled to respect.
How long does it take for someone who is English to move to India and become Indian?
The dominant culture dictates what's acceptable. Which is why immigrants in the USA move into their ghettos and don't leave, and don't make an attempt to assimilate.
You don't move to a culture that is outside of your own and expect on demand that you're acceptable. It's a risk that people have to assume on their own that they may have a difficult time being accepted. You're not entitled to acceptance that's going to be decided on an individual basis depending on who you meet, but you're entitled to respect.
Even if the family is 2nd generation.
Couple things-- I'm using the US/Canada as examples as they have influxes on many different cultures and are considered melting pots. Not to mention, everyone really are immigrants to North America. So I do believe it's a moot point. But FWIW, I am sure that once it gets to the point that an American cannot come back to the US and feel they belong, that yes, they will fit in in India. There are Indians with blue eyes/light hair, Indians with black skin/black hair, and everything in between... so I don't think skin color is as big of an issue IMO.
That being said-- you've given me a case in point-- why is it that where immigrants move is considered ghetto? I believe this is why the 2nd and 3rd generation family (the couple and their kids) that I mentioned above who moved into a wealthy, Caucasian neighborhood were told they'd bring down the value (despite the fact that they, themselves, were equally wealthy).
Also-- "even if the family is second generation"-- do you think this second generation family who knows nothing of their grandparent's culture, don't speak any language but English, eat the same food as their "pure" American neighbors, etc. are immigrants who should be moving into the ghetto? Why? What makes them different other than the color of their skin?
This is what I mean... does "dominant culture" in North America mean white (or black)? Because assuming I have assimilated as a 3rd generation 100% into the US culture, but having brown skin, will I never be considered a true North American? The color of your skin in NOT culture...
I do understand the argument against immigrants who move here and make no attempt to assimilate. Perhaps it's these immigrants that make the truly Americanized immigrants (and 2nd,3rd,4th gen) not be able to be fully accepted.
We're all immigrants here, save the original indegenous peoples. Anyone that holds American values true and contributes to society is in fact a true American. Sorry if I don't slice it thinner than that.
Why is this so hard to understand? NO ONE is "indigenous" to the Americas.
gah!
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