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Since we're all just speculating here while we wait for the results of the parallel investigations, and we only have one side of the story, from the killer, I agree with this point that I have bolded, but think it could have gone down this way:
Trayvon has been followed for more than two minutes by a stranger, so he runs to put some distance between him and the stranger. He sees that the stranger continues to follow him, so he stops to confront this man. The man approaches Trayvon and says, "What are you doing here?" Trayvon replies, "None of your business."
The man grabs Trayvon's arm and says, "I want you to wait right here." Trayvon pulls his arm away, at which time Zimmerman reaches for his cellphone to notify the dispatcher of his location. Trayvon, sensing that Zimmerman is reaching for a weapon, decks him, and then wrestles with him on the ground. One of them screams for help, and then Zimmerman fires his weapon into the body of Trayvon Martin, killing him.
The more I learn about George Zimmerman, the more I do not think he is a racist, but I do think he was a walking time bomb. However, I believe the reason this became a media circus is because of the way the investigation was handled. As I wrote in my previous comment, even the newly appointed Special Prosecutor, who didn't give details of the case, said that the Sanford Police were finished with their investigation when they presented the case to State Attorney Wolfinger. That sounds awfully strange to me, unless I'm misinterpreting her statement, but it's a direct quote.
After all, the shooting was between 7-7:30 on a Sunday evening. Zimmerman was questioned at the police station, and then the Chief of Police met with Wolfinger (who drove 50 miles to the scene) and overruled the lead investigator who wanted manslaughter charges filed. I realize that his 2005 felony charge, which was later reduced, probably can't be presented at trial, if there is one, but when reading the report, it clearly states that he was arrested for assaulting a law enforcement officer and shouting, "I don't care who you are, F-you." In today's world, we can never be sure what has been edited, but this is according to the report from Seminole County that has been available. Sounds to me as if Daddy has been getting his little boy out of trouble for years and he finally crossed the line from punching law enforcement and hitting women to killing someone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn
They said it sounds like "F'ing Cold", to me it sounded like "F'ing Coat". They agreed as I do that it did not sound like "F'ing Coon".
I don't know why it matters. I've read dozens of different posts by audio engineers, and they all vary. Some say "punks," some say they can't determine what he really said, and others say coon. I have a strong feeling that, even if an expert for the prosecution testifies that he heard racial slurs, the defense will find another expert who disputes his testimony. By the way, what you wrote makes sense. It was Feb 26 and rainy. It gets very cold in FL some nights. However, this also proves why Martin would be wearing a hooded sweatshirt. I don't swear too much, but I know I've said "it's freaking cold" many nights.
Last edited by justNancy; 04-05-2012 at 12:14 PM..
Reason: fix post
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker Theres a big difference between an arrest and a conviction anyway. The FACT is had he been a convicted of domestic violence or anything similar he would not have had a permit to carry. But regardless nothing in his past has much to do with that night.
I know this wasnt directed at me, but I feel I'm being objective. I have two boys and can certainly sympathize with Trayvons parents. But I'm also a home owner in a neighborhood where people get robbed. Personally I'v had vehicles broken into several times in my yard & things stolen from my porch. If I see a strange person, young or old, black or white, walking on my street at night in the rain and feel like watching him I will, if I feel like walking down the street to see whats up I will. The way I see it, the way any impartial rational person should see it, is I have as much right to be on the street as anyone else. My presence on a street after dark in the rain is NO justification for an assault on my person, if I engage that person in dialog its still no justification for an assault. You guys seem to think that because this Zimmerman decided to follow Trayvon he deserved to be attacked? You think that because he confronted him, which by the way is suggested by nothing we have seen on the episode yet, but you think that if he confronted him that was reason for attack? Yet being attacked was not justification for Zimmerman to defend himself? Seems absurd, its ok to jump somebody for being behind you at night on a public street, and its ok to attack somebody because they asked you a question, but its not ok to respond to a violent attack with violence.
What I took away from this & told my sons was dont put yourself in such a position if you can help it, if you find yourself in such a position act intelligently. If an adult asks you what your up to just say I'm coming home from the store, if you are afraid dial 911, if you really think somethings going on get out of there. This young man did none of these common sense things. When he first saw Zimmerman on the phone watching him he could have simply said "Can I help you" and difused the situation, instead he ran. He could have kept running & gotten away, instead he either laid in wait or came back. He could have called 911, but instead he attacked a concerened citizen.
Mistakes were made by both of them. But at the end of the day I cant feel Zimmerman was wrong for defending himself once attacked. At that point everything that went on before is pretty irrelevant. What matters is how the fight itself actually started. Since Zimmerman had a gun it doesnt make sense that he would have attacked Trayvon, if anything he would have held him at gun point and Trayvon would have probably complied. Had that went on I'd say Zimmerman was definately wrong. But the fact is Zimmerman was being beaten by Trayvon and defended himself. I feel very safe saying thats what went on simply because the police let him go.
Its been a very long time since people were not charged for killing a black person simply because they were white, which is what the entire premise of Zimmermans guilt despite being released from custody is based on, and he's not even white.
What irritates me about posts such as this, is that whether you realize it or not, you are drawing your own conclusion based on what you imagined transpired. You tell a story and insert facts that thus far, have not been proven.
If we are going to speculate on what should have happened, it would have been very simple for Zimmerman to have either introduced himself as the neighborhood watch and asked Trayvon who he was or not pursued him at all after calling 911.
You are also assuming that Zimmerman's story was factual as to the severity of his beating and his crying for help. Well thus far, this alleged brutal, life threatening beating and the verification of the voice on the tape is not panning out to be aligned with his version of the story.
Many professional law enforcement people have agreed that there was enough probable cause to warrant an arrest and further investigation.
I don't know why we should care what irritates you. But in my opinion that post you are referring to above is one of the most level headed, rational responses on this forum. It is based on the only facts in evidence on this case rather then all the sensationalism and racial drama that has been layered on top of it.
Why aren't you railing about all of the other speculation that has clearly been proven to be wrong? By the way, the video link posted earlier said that George called a non-emergency number, not 911, when he was talking to a dispatcher. Just one more example of the misinformation you keep quoting, which you are basing your conjecture and speculation upon.
Thus far Zimmerman's version of what happened is supported by all of the facts in evidence and the eye witness testimony.
The more I learn about George Zimmerman, the more I do not think he is a racist, but I do think he was a walking time bomb. However, I believe the reason this became a media circus is because of the way the investigation was handled. As I wrote in my previous comment, even the newly appointed Special Prosecutor, who didn't give details of the case, said that the Sanford Police were finished with their investigation when they presented the case to State Attorney Wolfinger. That sounds awfully strange to me, unless I'm misinterpreting her statement, but it's a direct quote.
After all, the shooting was between 7-7:30 on a Sunday evening. Zimmerman was questioned at the police station, and then the Chief of Police met with Wolfinger (who drove 50 miles to the scene) and overruled the lead investigator who wanted manslaughter charges filed. I realize that his 2005 felony charge, which was later reduced, probably can't be presented at trial, if there is one, but when reading the report, it clearly states that he was arrested for assaulting a law enforcement officer and shouting, "I don't care who you are, F-you." In today's world, we can never be sure what has been edited, but this is according to the report from Seminole County that has been available. Sounds to me as if Daddy has been getting his little boy out of trouble for years and he finally crossed the line from punching law enforcement and hitting women to killing someone.
I don't know why it matters. I've read dozens of different posts by audio engineers, and they all vary. Some say "punks," some say they can't determine what he really said, and others say coon. I have a strong feeling that, even if an expert for the prosecution testifies that he heard racial slurs, the defense will find another expert who disputes his testimony. By the way, what you wrote makes sense. It was Feb 26 and rainy. It gets very cold in FL some nights. However, this also proves why Martin would be wearing a hooded sweatshirt. I don't swear too much, but I know I've said "it's freaking cold" many nights.
I don't think you actually understand what a magistrate is or what a former Virginia magistrate's influence in Florida would be. (Hint: not that much).
Theres a big difference between an arrest and a conviction anyway. The FACT is had he been a convicted of domestic violence or anything similar he would not have had a permit to carry. But regardless nothing in his past has much to do with that night.
I know this wasnt directed at me, but I feel I'm being objective. I have two boys and can certainly sympathize with Trayvons parents. But I'm also a home owner in a neighborhood where people get robbed. Personally I'v had vehicles broken into several times in my yard & things stolen from my porch. If I see a strange person, young or old, black or white, walking on my street at night in the rain and feel like watching him I will, if I feel like walking down the street to see whats up I will. The way I see it, the way any impartial rational person should see it, is I have as much right to be on the street as anyone else. My presence on a street after dark in the rain is NO justification for an assault on my person, if I engage that person in dialog its still no justification for an assault. You guys seem to think that because this Zimmerman decided to follow Trayvon he deserved to be attacked? You think that because he confronted him, which by the way is suggested by nothing we have seen on the episode yet, but you think that if he confronted him that was reason for attack? Yet being attacked was not justification for Zimmerman to defend himself? Seems absurd, its ok to jump somebody for being behind you at night on a public street, and its ok to attack somebody because they asked you a question, but its not ok to respond to a violent attack with violence.
What I took away from this & told my sons was dont put yourself in such a position if you can help it, if you find yourself in such a position act intelligently. If an adult asks you what your up to just say I'm coming home from the store, if you are afraid dial 911, if you really think somethings going on get out of there. This young man did none of these common sense things. When he first saw Zimmerman on the phone watching him he could have simply said "Can I help you" and difused the situation, instead he ran. He could have kept running & gotten away, instead he either laid in wait or came back. He could have called 911, but instead he attacked a concerened citizen.
Mistakes were made by both of them. But at the end of the day I cant feel Zimmerman was wrong for defending himself once attacked. At that point everything that went on before is pretty irrelevant. What matters is how the fight itself actually started. Since Zimmerman had a gun it doesnt make sense that he would have attacked Trayvon, if anything he would have held him at gun point and Trayvon would have probably complied. Had that went on I'd say Zimmerman was definately wrong. But the fact is Zimmerman was being beaten by Trayvon and defended himself. I feel very safe saying thats what went on simply because the police let him go.
Its been a very long time since people were not charged for killing a black person simply because they were white, which is what the entire premise of Zimmermans guilt despite being released from custody is based on, and he's not even white.
Having been a Police Detective I see enough Probable Cause. This was politics a retired Magistrate with a wife who works for the County and their son the self appointed vigilante.
FL local cops don't care about retired magistrates from VA...
I said early on we need to stop blaming until all the facts come out.
With the real racist Sharpton etc coming out and using race and starting race wars over something that is not a race issue I must come to my own conclusion based on the facts to date.
I said early on Zimmerman is not a white man.
Zimmerman was not chasing him.
Zimmerman was retreating to the car.
Look at the crimes in the area and see who was committing most of those crimes.
Zimmermans job was to protect the people who lived in those homes.
Zimmermans minor scuffle was distorted and lied about.
Martins short life span shows a ton of issues.
violence by beating a bus driver
possession of an illegal drug
suspension from school for tardiness and missing school
list seems to be very long of issues
* What kind of parent does not know where there 17 year old is when they do not come home at all? Why would you go to bed like Martins father did not knowing or worried where his child is until the next day?
Eye witness saw Martin beating Zimmerman.
Zimmerman has a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head.
Zimmerman was attacked by Martin therefore Martin becomes the criminal aggressor and Zimmerman has the right to protect himself.
Why was Martin running away? Did he have something he needed to get rid of?
Why did Martin come back around the building towards Zimmerman after running away?
Martin had a cell phone, why did he not call 911 himself?
Those congressional members who have said he killed him in cold blood and he was attacked like a dog should be removed from office if these facts become true.
Al Sharpton and others should be held responsible for issues caused by their racist attacks.
A 50 year old man was beaten by black teenagers in Sanford and Sharpton and the others should be held responsible for this hate crime.
I would hope if Zimmerman is found to have defended himself that all these race baiting troublemakers in our congress would resign or be removed.
If Zimmerman is found guilty then he needs to pay the price of the offense.
But from the facts of today it appears to be that Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman was protecting himself.
The real racist in America has shown us all who they are during this time.
A person has died and that is sad and a tragedy and all we needed was race baiting trouble makers making things worse like they have.
If I were the Governor of Florida I would lock down Sanford to residents, business owners etc and stop the loitering in the city until this issue is solved.
I've been pretty much on and off the Zimmerman/Martin threads for days. I have not seen anything that has "poked holes" in the integrity or expertise of the voice experts.
I recall reading a post and the link to a news report that said other audio experts say the methods used by the first audio expert did not meet the standards required for his conclusions to be admitted as evidence. At best it is inconclusive at this time.
As I recall the "qualifications" listed for the first "audio expert" indicated that he lacked professional training aside from being affiliated with some audio organizations.
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