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There was no slip. And once again, no, I know tons of Black people who are of the same complexion as President Obama and their parents are Black. It's not hard to understand, so what is the problem?
Of course if you are Ghanian you will have different concepts of what Black is. That I can undertand ... but this is the US.
First you said you know tons of black people who looks like Obama whose parents are both white. Then you said you know tons of black people who look like Obama whose parents are both black. If there was no slip which is correct?
I know a guy who looks just like the young Obama. He is from Trinidad with a black mom and an Indian (north, light) dad.
Yes as a Ghanaian my concept of black (originating with blacks) is that black actually means black. Your concept of black (originating with whites for the purpose of enlarging the slave pool to include the offspring of white men) doesn't really mean black. And yes this is the U.S., a country where these concepts are slowly but surely changing thanks to a growing multiracial population and proud fully black people like me.
First you said you know tons of black people who looks like Obama whose parents are both white. Then you said you know tons of black people who look like Obama whose parents are both black. If there was no slip which is correct?
I know a guy who looks just like the young Obama. He is from Trinidad with a black mom and an Indian (north, light) dad.
Yes as a Ghanaian my concept of black (originating with blacks) is that black actually means black. Your concept of black (originating with whites for the purpose of enlarging the slave pool to include the offspring of white men) doesn't really mean black. And yes this is the U.S., a country where these concepts are slowly but surely changing thanks to a growing multiracial population and proud fully black people like me.
It's obvious which was the correct comment by me. You're trying to play psychological gains to make it look like you had a point. Obviously if we are talking about BLACK and WHITE then there is a chance that I might say "White" (as I am thinking about it) instead of "Black." The post that you tried to say was a slip was intended to be "Black" because we were obviously talking about how some Black people whose parents are BOTH Black can be as light as Obama. I even wrote sentences after that that referred to that. I see what you are trying to do ...
First you said you know tons of black people who looks like Obama whose parents are both white. Then you said you know tons of black people who look like Obama whose parents are both black. If there was no slip which is correct?
I know a guy who looks just like the young Obama. He is from Trinidad with a black mom and an Indian (north, light) dad.
Yes as a Ghanaian my concept of black (originating with blacks) is that black actually means black. Your concept of black (originating with whites for the purpose of enlarging the slave pool to include the offspring of white men) doesn't really mean black. And yes this is the U.S., a country where these concepts are slowly but surely changing thanks to a growing multiracial population and proud fully black people like me.
Then why not simply agree to disagree?
The fact remains that although the vast majority of African Americans are not 100% "Black" (by your stands) we are viewed as such. Bythe same token, most White Americans are a mixture of different European (and even Native American, African or Asian, in some cases) ancestry and would not be considered "pure" German or "pure Swedish" etc either.
You can't decide your DNA or your family. If a mixed person was to identify as only white, he or she would be a laughing stock, but if they say he's all black, even though he or she has dirty brown hair and is lighter than the average Greek and is clearer not all black, people are okay with that.
Yes, people are okay with that, because I don't care how much white you have in your DNA, if you do not "look" white, you will not be considered white. Period. Conversely, people are accepted as being black even when their skin is very light. Again, we come in all shades, so it's no biggie.
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk
In that very same 2010 census, you could pick more than one race. So, instead of standing in solidarity with the other mixed people, many of whom faced discrimination from both blacks and whites or Asian and blacks or whatever, he choose "black." I checked off black and white, as amongst whites I'm seen as mixed or black and amongst blacks I'm seen as "that damn mutt" or "what the hell are you doing in this neighborhood? Why don't you go back to Puerto Rico?"
Why on earth do you care what Obama checked on the census form? Does it impact your life? Are you so fragile that you're traumatized because someone calls you a name? If so, you have a very rough road ahead.
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk
I am mixed, that is how I identify. People should be honest with themselves.
So, you're mixed. Why is that such a big deal? Moreover, how is one being dishonest by refusing to be racially categorized by the U.S. government? Why can't people simply enjoy life as human beings?
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk
When you go to a black church and get asked what the hell are you doing there, when you have people yelling "Mexican" at you from the car as you walk by, when you have "sisters" hissing at you and calling you "high yellow bougie b***" and when you have ten times the drama as blacks when you need an organ or tissue donor, you are not black...and when you know you would have been a slave or forced into segregated housing and schools, you are not white.
Oh stop! What black church treated like that? I used to attend a large AME Church, and we had every shade in the book in our congregation. I have also been a member of black Baptist churches. Again, every shade, including white. I suppose next you'll say you were forced to wait until all the "pure" black people were seated at a soul food restaurant before you could be served. This is beyond absurd.
As for being "high yellow" -- my son has certainly had plenty of black girls ringing his phone off the hook. And, that started in elementary school. You MUST be kidding.
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk
I spent a lot of time with my grandfather. On his death bed he told me stories of growing up in America being barely ever to speak the language and how mean people were to him. He told me to be proud of my heritage...so, why should I say I am not a part of that?
Wouldn't it be sad if I or someone like me choose to live in the black world and deny my Italian heritage and wouldn't it be just as sad as if a mixed person lived in the white world?
No one has even remotely suggested you should deny your Italian heritage. But, you shouldn't be obsessed with it either. I said it is sad that my aunt chose to deny her black heritage, because she has lived a lie, and her children have been denied the opportunity to know their relatives, as well as their heritage. Actually, I'm surprised she chose to have children. After all, she could have given birth to one who inherited her black father's genes. Imagine that. I don't know how she has managed to hide the truth from her husband and children for so many years, because she has always stayed in touch with her siblings. She even visits. Go figure.
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk
A hundred years ago, in Haiti, he would have had his head chopped off by his "black brothers" for being a mulatto. Today, in South Africa, the Zulus and other tribes would kill him if he stepped food in their neighborhood, because he's a coloured and therefore not African.
Obama is lucky in that his father was pure African, and hence he came out looking pretty black. My father was not, and hence I came out looking clearly neither black nor white, as most mulattoes do. In America, we have to deal with a black community that only accepts us with we go out of our way to be black and even then it's hard, and we can't mention that we are proud of any part of us other than the black part...or else.
My friend is half black half Korean, and a lot of Koreans don't like he and blacks have called her "chinky b***" more times than she can remember.
But, this isn't 1912. It's 2012. And, this is the USA, not Haiti. No one is having their head chopped off for being biracial. Stop living in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
The idea that blacks can be just as racist as any other group is a hard pill for blacks to swallow. After all that discrimination and hatred, blacks are now dishing out the same hatred and discrimination. The Civil Rights movement should have ended with a warning from Nietzsche:
"Be careful when you fight monsters, least you become a monster. Stare into the abyss long enough, and the abyss stares back."
No, it is not a hard pill to swallow, because most people of average intelligence realize people of ANY race can be bigots. Who has said otherwise? There is much more to your story. You have issues, but it's not due to your treatment by black folks.
I have now officially vowed to never again call myself Black or African American (God, I hate that term) again. I could say I'm Black and European, or colored (non-white) but I am through saying I'm black and now realize I should never have identified as black.
I'm half Black American, half Italian...okay, my black father was 1/4 Cherokee and 1/8th English, but he's pretty dark. My mother was as Italian as Al Capone. My grand parents were fresh off the boat Italian, from Catania, in Sicily. We had the traditional seven fishes every Christmas and I was fed Italian wine when I was like twelve and my grandfather would play opera records while he worked around his house and I was raised Catholic. My father was black, and I spent a lot of time with my black family too.
Anyway, I was at a bar with some folks the other day and I mentioned that I always wanted to learn Italian, which I never picked up from my relatives and I said I always wanted to know my family's mother tongue. Well, a black guy overheard and gave me the look of death, but didn't say anything. I asked him what his problem was and the SAME F^^^^ fight that I've had numerous times with black people broke out. He said, and I quote, "n^^^^a, you know you ain't no damn Italian! What, you gotta problem being black?"
My chums at the bar were quite loud in their rebuttals, and the outnumbered black fellow made that hiss sound and walked away.
I've gotten this SO DAMN MUCH. Black folks, insisting I call myself black exclusively and ignore the dominate part of my DNA (My mother was all Italian, my father was not all black, hence, genetically, I'm mostly Italian) They give me this reaction of contempt and anger if I so much as acknowledge my other side.
And then, they even seem to get mad at me for the crime of being alive. Some pure black Americans look at me with hatred when they hear me talk. It's like they're afraid I'm going to pollute their Afro-Aryan gene pool, being this brown skinned fellow who has the nerve to speak proper English.
And spare me...SPARE ME that "one drop rule" crap. That was the law once upon a time, yes...but it was also against the law for anyone with black blood to learn to read, does that mean I should never go back to school? How much should I care about what some long dead bigot thinks?
Or, they say "if this was back in the day, you would be enslaved by the white man." Yes...and if I was in Haiti right after the revolution, the blacks would have gladly lopped my head off. If I was in South Africa RIGHT NOW I would be treated like dirt by the black majority who discriminate against the mixed-race coloureds. So, I shouldn't identify with a group that wants to oppress me...unless that group is the blacks, then it's okay if I identify with the oppressor.
And I don't identify as only white either, but the more I think about it...why should I be ashamed for having white blood? If I called myself black exclusively, as many mulattoes do, wouldn't being ashamed being exactly what I'm doing? I mean, if a mixed person said "I'm white" despite being light brown, people would think they're ashamed of having black blood. But, if they say "I'm black," no one thinks it's because they're ashamed of having white blood.
And the funniest part is, I've met so many people from Italy, and none of them had a problem with me being black and Italian. I say I want to learn Italian, and they think I mean right then and there and they try to teach me some words. They never seem to have any problem with a mixed race Italian...but "my brothers?" The minute they find out I am mixed and am not afraid to admit it they have problems.
As none-PC as it may be to say, in my lifetime I have found that blacks are twice as racist as whites when it comes to this. I got beaten up as a kid by the pure blacks who hated me for having lighter skin and clearly Italian features (strong cheek bones, dark under my eyes, shorter statue etc)
It was never a member of the KKK or a skinhead who chased me around calling me the "N word" and trying to kick my butt, it was the black kids who did just that. Plus, I'm not culturally ghetto, so it was even worse...
...look at it this way: a white kid wearing a T-shirt of a heavy metal band walks past some black ghetto kids. They wouldn't do anything...but a mulatto kid in a T-shirt for a heavy metal band walks past the same black thugs, and they are going to attack him for listening to "white music." I know because I WAS that mulatto kid.
I mean, is a white guy betraying his race if he prefers rap to blue grass music? No, and hardly no white people would give him any problems. But if a person of black origin, part or full, hates rap and likes heavy metal and rock? All of a sudden he's "acting white" and he's a traitor.
First of all, listening to Jimmy Hendrix as opposed to Kenya West is hardly "acting white" and second, I am half white! So I should never listen to music or experience the culture of the other side of me? (again, I should be ashamed of having white blood, and no one has a problem with that)
And yes, I hate rap...if no one is singing, playing an instrument, or composing, IT ISN'T MUSIC! I would much rather listen to rock, metal, electronic music or classical. But because that is not "orthodox Negroid thought" and it is bad enough that I am breathing while mixed and not a pure Afro-Aryan, I am a target for so many racist blacks.
I have nothing against black people, or my black blood. But, if I call myself black, I would be betraying my other half and embracing a people who so often have issues with my very existence. Hence, I am half-black, and will never call myself black again...
...and for the record, Obama isn't black either. But he lived a sheltered upperclass lifestyle in Hawaii and didn't go through what I went through on the East Coast, so he's a different story. He's also a failure of a president who should be a one term wonder...but that's another thing blacks would attack me for saying out loud.
Another confused, self-hating, tragic mulatto. Nothing to see here.
Great job accusing someone of hating themselves after they tell you a story about people being rude and disrespectful to them for being an individual and not a brainwashed clone. Lucifer is proud lucario, I think you should change your username.
Great job accusing someone of hating themselves after they tell you a story about people being rude and disrespectful to them for being an individual and not a brainwashed clone. Lucifer is proud lucario, I think you should change your username.
I've read enough posts from "victorianpunk" to form an opinion of him, and this last OP is just reinforcing my opinion. I'm just glad you know the Devil well enough (First-name basis! Impressive), and indeed have had a recent conversation with him about the City-Data Forum, to be able to report back to me and everyone else about what he thinks about my post.
The OP has every right to embrace whatever they want of their own culture. I am so sorry you have been judged by so many.
I say take people one at a time and don't judge based on skin.
Go learn Italian if you'd like. It will be fun.
It's a great language. I taught myself so I could speak it better than the vast majority of Italian Americans around my way.
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I don't know how she has managed to hide the truth from her husband and children for so many years, because she has always stayed in touch with her siblings. She even visits. Go figure.
