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Old 04-14-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
"Breeding Machines?"

If my wife heard you say that, she's kick your little schnutts so high up into your abdomen that you'd cough them out your mouth.
Well, to me they are, not to mention irresponsible. I don't think having more than 2 or at most 3 children makes sense anymore. There are more than 7b humans already. Nobody should be so naive as to think their children are special.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:11 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,946,153 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, to me they are, not to mention irresponsible. I don't think having more than 2 or at most 3 children makes sense anymore. There are more than 7b humans already. Nobody should be so naive as to think their children are special.
There's a few wrong things with your statement.

1. It makes perfect sense having more than 2 kids, especially in Europe. Your birth rates are the lowest in the world.

2. Children are special to their parents, because THEY created them and they toiled to raise them
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:15 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,158,177 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
The key seems not to be merely having children, but having lots of children - six or more according to the study. Perhaps many women with fewer children have children only grudgingly: their relative unhappiness could be an attitude thing.

I would surmise that women with more than the average number of children are happier in their own skin, as women ... comfortable with their femininity, willing to work with their biology rather than against it. This comports with my own experience. I've met lots of unhappy mothers of small broods for whom their children were a nuisance, whereas mothers of large families seem to actually be more relaxed and have a lot of joy in their lives.
You can "surmise" all you want but there's no facts involved.

YOU do NOT know all women and even the ones you do know you canNOT know their true feelings.

Many women are quite happy with NO children but sexists like to insist "biology is destiny"...well, it isn't.

I just think you feel "safer" if the little women just act like YOU think they should....


You could try reading other posts even if they upset your little sexist applecart.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Fairfax
2,904 posts, read 6,918,725 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, to me they are, not to mention irresponsible. I don't think having more than 2 or at most 3 children makes sense anymore. There are more than 7b humans already. Nobody should be so naive as to think their children are special.
If a family can afford lots of children who are you to tell them they're irresponsible? Are you a fascist? It's funny, since Germany (where you're from) is concerned about a low birthrate and many EU countries give incentives for more children.

It sounds like there is a real disconnect between reality and your opinion on family size; perhaps you were talking about families in India?
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,608,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't think having more than 2 or at most 3 children makes sense anymore. There are more than 7b humans already.
On the contrary. If we don't quickly begin to reverse plunging birthrates in the U.S. and Europe, western civilization is toast.


Demographic Winter Trailer - YouTube
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
There's a few wrong things with your statement.

1. It makes perfect sense having more than 2 kids, especially in Europe. Your birth rates are the lowest in the world.

2. Children are special to their parents, because THEY created them and they toiled to raise them
As far as I know it takes 2.1 children per woman to maintain society.
Actually, it is a good development when Europe shrinks a bit. After all, it is already densely populated and when I look at the future, there will simply be no need for even more people. The times of mass employment are over, at least in Europe. So, while we may have a certain excess of old people for a few decades here, after that we will be better off in the long run.

If the US and Brazil keep growing as fast as they have been for quite some time, they will face much bigger problems once the time comes further growth becomes a problem (maybe that already is the case in some areas). Like with cars, the faster you go, the longer it takes to stop.


Yes, I know parents tend to think that way, but I find that way of thinking naive. I know that my children are no more special than any children in Africa or Asia. To the world any child is just one more child.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Fairfax
2,904 posts, read 6,918,725 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
You can "surmise" all you want but there's no facts involved.

YOU do NOT know all women and even the ones you do know you canNOT know their true feelings.

Many women are quite happy with NO children but sexists like to insist "biology is destiny"...well, it isn't.

I just think you feel "safer" if the little women just act like YOU think they should....


You could try reading other posts even if they upset your little sexist applecart.
It was said that having children makes some mothers more happier. You in turn took that to mean having children is the ONLY way a woman can become happy. You sound like you have a real ax to grind here...
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Fairfax
2,904 posts, read 6,918,725 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
As far as I know it takes 2.1 children per woman to maintain society.
Actually, it is a good development when Europe shrinks a bit. After all, it is already densely populated and when I look at the future, there will simply be no need for even more people. The times of mass employment are over, at least in Europe. So, while we may have a certain excess of old people for a few decades here, after that we will be better off in the long run.

If the US and Brazil keep growing as fast as they have been for quite some time, they will face much bigger problems once the time comes further growth becomes a problem (maybe that already is the case in some areas). Like with cars, the faster you go, the longer it takes to stop.


Yes, I know parents tend to think that way, but I find that way of thinking naive. I know that my children are no more special than any children in Africa or Asia. To the world any child is just one more child.
Haha keep on fighting the war on overpopulation Don't worry that you're 3 decades late to the game.

You think USA and Brazil will face trouble? Pretty much all economists and analysts agree that a stable or growing population is much better for the economy, and that is almost universally agreed upon as a "demographic dividend" that these countries will receive. Once again, it sounds like you're just making up stuff.


Who's going to have the most trouble with demographics? China. They have a low birthrate and will be in a similar demographic situation as Europe, but without an affluent population.

Some education on this:
China's population: The most surprising demographic crisis | The Economist
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:32 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by destinedtodave View Post
Haha keep on fighting the war on overpopulation Don't worry that you're 3 decades late to the game.

You think USA and Brazil will face trouble? Pretty much all economists and analysts agree that a stable or growing population is much better for the economy, and that is almost universally agreed upon as a "demographic dividend" that these countries will receive. Once again, it sounds like you're just making up stuff.


Who's going to have the most trouble with demographics? China. They have a low birthrate and will be in a similar demographic situation as Europe, but without an affluent population.

Some education on this:
China's population: The most surprising demographic crisis | The Economist
That will be the very problem. We live on a limited planet, every country is limited, we can't keep growing forever. The US already has a real unemployment rate of about 20%.
The more population growth you have now, the bigger the future mountain of elderly people will become, people who the economy usually doesn't want and need anymore.

While China has a problem because of the sex imbalance due to outdated cultural attitudes, they would have even greater problems if they had not tried to stop their growth.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Camberville
15,866 posts, read 21,452,288 times
Reputation: 28216
Stay at home moms work a lot less than working moms - they have a whole day to do all the things a working mom does in the morning, evenings, and weekends. I'd venture to guess families with a stay at home parent get a lot more sleep than families with a single working parent or two working parents. So I can believe that a mother that is the financial position to stay at home (which many mothers with more than 3 children are - that's the point that it just becomes cheaper to stay at home than deal with daycare/babysitters) lives a more stress-free life, which is healthy.
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