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Bottom line, Zimmerman did not have the right to kill him, regardless of Zimmerman's perceptions. You absolutely cannot control what other people think of you, period. Your scenario is like blaming a rape victim for her rape because of the clothes she wore. I think it's abundantly clear that Zimmerman has some pretty strong biases.
On the 911 call Zimmerman said that Martin was acting suspicious - walking in a manner that he looked high and looking about in the rain. Is it not possible that Martin was acting suspicious?
Not according to the police or the surveillance tape from the convenient store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Is it not possible that Martin assisted Zimmerman's perception of him?
Sure. Once a man grabbed me and I screamed. He said, "I thought you wanted the same thing." That was his perception, not mine. So if you think that someone can assist another in his own delusion, I suppose you're right. Sometimes a person will hear voices telling him to do things too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
-Martin was possibly high based on autopsy and apparently has at least a small history with drugs...fits Zimmerman's description of him looking high.
Not true. The autopsy showed insignificant amounts of THC and all of the forensic scientists who have analyzed the autopsy report agree he was not smoking marijuana and the traces of THC could have been in his blood for several days or longer. No marijuana was found on Trayvon Martin. No drug paraphernalia of any kind was found on his body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
-Martin was possibly looking in car windows or acting suspicious, especially if he was high...possible history of stealing with rumors of female jewelry in backpack in a previous school incident.
Zimmerman never said in the 911 call that "the suspect" was looking in car windows. The rumors about what he did or did not do in school are irrelevant. The police said the victim had "no criminal record" and "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.” I guess that's not good enough for you. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
No idea if the rumors are true. But, sometimes, people are partly responsible for the perceptions that other people have of them.
So you think George Zimmerman knew that Trayvon Martin had been suspended from school? Is that what you're saying?
1. You could check out the crime stats yourself if you want. GZ has a history of "Jekyll/Hyde" behavior; he was fired from a job for calling the HR hotline too frequently. He was on prescription meds himself.
2. Nothing in the call about Trayvon looking into car windows. "S/he looks like s/he's on drugs" is a common statement people make. It is, IMO, meaningless.
3. As you say, there is nothing definitive about Trayvon being high at the time, and his THC levels do not support such an assertion.
#1 He certainly has a character that can be question in regards to the tragedy. So does Martin. That is my point - we don't know what happened. Yes he called a lot, but wasn't it working out to something like once a month or so...and for being a night watchman in an area with many break ins.....he could certainly argue that it wasn't unwarranted.
#2 "Well he was looking about" and acting suspicious. Zimmerman could elaborate in the courtroom and tell the truth or lie -- no one alive knows the truth.
#3 The first part of your sentence is true, the second is not necessarily true it is you coming to a conclusion without the evidence for it. The expert that I saw said he definitely had traces of drugs in his body, but it is not definitive as to when he last took them. I'll go with the expert over you for now.
Not according to the police or the surveillance tape from the convenient store.
Sure. Once a man grabbed me and I screamed. He said, "I thought you wanted the same thing." That was his perception, not mine. So if you think that someone can assist another in his own delusion, I suppose you're right. Sometimes a person will hear voices telling him to do things too. Not true. The autopsy showed insignificant amounts of THC and all of the forensic scientists who have analyzed the autopsy report agree he was not smoking marijuana and the traces of THC could have been in his blood for several days or longer. Zimmerman never said he was looking in car windows. The rumors about what he did or did not do in school or irrelevant. The police used the words "no criminal record" and "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter.”
So you think George Zimmerman knew that Trayvon Martin had been suspended from school? Is that what you're saying?
Geez...
I am saying that per the 911 call Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious.
It is possible that Martin was acting suspicious. It is also possible that he wasn't.
It is possible that Martin has a record that indicated he makes bad choices more frequently than the typical teen. People who make bad choices sometimes act suspicious.
I am sorry but the expert on CNN said he might have been high or he might have been coming down from them or he might have taken the drugs days before. He said we don't really know and can't tell other than that he did multiple drugs at some point. I will take his words over yours.
I cant believe a couple thousand people jump
Up and down and this innocent man gets arrested. And for what? Volunteering to make his neaighborhood safer from burglers?
And poor sweet Traybon had stolen women's jewlery, marijuanu and burglery tools found in his school locker.
That's not relevant!!!!!!!!! Or so say the Trayvoniacs.
I am saying that per the 911 call Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious.
It is possible that Martin was acting suspicious. It is also possible that he wasn't.
It is possible that Martin has a record that indicated he makes bad choices more frequently than the typical teen. People who make bad choices sometimes act suspicious.
I am sorry but the expert on CNN said he might have been high or he might have been coming down from them or he might have taken the drugs days before. He said we don't really know and can't tell other than that he did multiple drugs at some point. I will take his words over yours.
I guess when you run my response all together instead of in individual answers, what I wrote isn't as coherent. I don't know if you did that or it's the way the quote feature works.
In any case, I thought it was Zimmerman that the commentator on CNN was referring to, not Martin. He was talking about George Zimmerman who was taking multiple prescription medications. You don't "come down" off of marijuana the way you'd be withdrawing from drugs like Adderall and Temazepam.
Edit: Which "expert" are you talking about..a forensic scientist, clinical psychologist or a legal analyst or commentator? There are experts in their field and then there are people who like to give opinions.
By the way, one thing you said is true. We don't really know what happened. So why are you automatically assuming that the victim was the person who did something wrong? Why couldn't the shooter have been acting strangely? Why couldn't the shooter be the one who was paranoid and delusional, so he followed a teenager who was only walking around talking on his cell phone? Just curious.
Last edited by justNancy; 05-27-2012 at 09:12 PM..
Zimmerman's 911 call clearly indicates that he thought Martin was suspicious. You can't prove that Martin was acting suspicious. You can't prove that Martin wasn't the aggressor (even a member of the prosecution admitted this point essentially). You can't prove that Zimmerman didn't have sufficient reason to fear for his life.
I haven't made a conclusion yet - unlike you. I am just showing you that your predetermined outcome isn't provable with the evidence the public has.
It is a tragedy. A young kid is dead and another somewhat young life is forever ruined no matter what happened. What is even worse is there really isn't a lot of evidence against Zimmerman's version, at least released yet, so Zimmerman will probably walk from Murder charges even if he is lying and guilty. I am worried that we don't have enough evidence of who initiated a physical altercation and so forth.
I would not be surprised that the charges drop to Manslaughter so they don't have to prove as much.
I can see that you don't understand what I'm saying. I think it may be a bit over your head. You've also made it clear that you are getting your information from tee-vee experts, (who, by the way, haven't been privy to all the evidence either.)
No, I can't prove any of the things you point out. HOWEVER, I don't know at this point whether or not the State can prove them. I have always said here that we don't know ALL OF THE EVIDENCE the State has because it has not all been released. It is possible that the State of Florida can prove those things one way or the other. And, it is after all the State's job to prove Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If they can't do that, then the jury will acquit him. AGAIN, I couldn't agree with you more that we in the public do not know all of the evidence which the State and Defense have at this point.
There is one little piece of evidence you might find interesting which has been released. The friend Martin was talking to on the phone when Zimmerman approached Martin overheard a verbal exchange between them.....the last thing she heard before the phone cut of was Trayvon saying "get off, get off"........whether or not that evidence is produced at trial or hearing, and the amount of weight the jury or judge may give it, is unknown at this time. This evidence comes from a sworn statement given by the witness in an interview with the prosecutor.
Just curious. What predetermined conclusion do you think I have come to? Did you read my post?
Last edited by FancyFeast5000; 05-27-2012 at 09:13 PM..
Reason: typos
I guess when you run my response all together instead of in individual answers, what I wrote isn't as coherent. I don't know if you did that or it's the way the quote feature works.
In any case, I thought it was Zimmerman that the "expert" on CNN was referring to, not Martin. He was talking about George Zimmerman who was taking multiple prescription medications. You don't "come down" from smoking marijuana.
No, the expert was talking about Martin. The expert said that Martin could have been high or that he could have taken the drugs days beforehand. We don't know when he took the drugs. But we do know that there were traces of more than one type of drug in his body.
"Coming down" was my poor paraphrasing. I have never tried any form of illegal drugs and I don't smoke or drink so I am not up on the lingo. Basically, the expert said that we don't know when Martin took the various drugs.
I can see that you don't understand what I'm saying. I think it may be a bit over your head. You've also made it clear that you are getting your information from tee-vee experts, (who, by the way, haven't been privy to all the evidence either.)
Okay who is your expert? CNN said the medical examiner's report said that we don't know when Martin took the drugs, based on the timing of the autopsy and the numbers and they had 2 doctors on that agreed with the medical examiner's findings. Don't be smug - good night it is late.
Well, at least you admit it, but you shouldn't talk about yourself in such a negative manner. Perhaps you should seek therapy to find out why you have this obsession.
Way off topic and a personal attack.
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I think it's abundantly clear that Zimmerman has some pretty strong biases.
