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Again..it's pretty simple: Unions are made up of members.
I dare you to go down to the schoolhouse and tell a union teacher, to his or her face, that he's not interested in helping kids learn. What do you think would happen?
Well of course I never said union teachers are not interested in teaching children, I said their union isn't interested in teaching children, they are interested in representing their dues paying members. Sorry its a fact, it may make you uncomfortable to face that fact, but it is nonetheless a fact.
I'm a teacher of 20 years of reading and English, 7th and 8th grade. Last year my students' test scores were 97% proficient or advanced, and I didn't teach GATE. This year I doubt I'll even have a majority above basic (proficient or higher is passing). Those who say the fault lies with the teachers, Republicans, Democrats, or Unions are mistaken. It lies with the students and parents most of the time. When I teach an advanced class, it's standing room only at back to school night and those parents check the grades weekly online and email me frequently. When I teach a class that is below grade level, only one or two out of thirty-five parents show up. They don't return phone calls or emails. When I do get in touch, they say they can't help because it's my job. They let their students stay home 2-3 days a week and sometimes keep their kid home to watch younger siblings so they can get their hair and nails done. Almost everyone at my school is on free or reduced lunch, yet the parents drive cars newer than mine and the students have cell phones I can't afford. I can't remember the link, but I read a story about a district--I think it was L.A. Unified--where they were afraid of going into school improvement. So, they took the entire teaching staff from the top scoring school and swapped them with the bottom scoring school, thinking the bottom scoring school would then improve so much they wouldn't have to go into school improvement. The next year they found the scores didn't change a bit. What is the solution to kids who refuse to do any work? First, we need an alternative education placement for students like that. Most other countries do. Second, what is taught must be realistic. Requiring junior high students to learn intermediate algebra with the quadratic formula and parabolas (that we didn't learn until late high school) is ridiculous. Third, students must want to succeed. When I was in school, we were poor so I worked my butt off so I wouldn't be like my parents with no education. Currently, the students live very comfortably on food stamps, with government assistance, and have money for cable t.v., cell phones, etc., because they get supplemented by tax money. Benjamin Franklin said, "If you want to help the poor, make them uncomfortable in their situation."
I do not believe the parents or children in the US are any better or worse than parents and students around the world. Yet we get less bang for our buck. It is our system that is at fault.
No one would accept an argument against healthcare reform tht blames the patient. Why should we accept this argument with regard to education?
I'm a teacher of 20 years of reading and English, 7th and 8th grade. Last year my students' test scores were 97% proficient or advanced, and I didn't teach GATE. This year I doubt I'll even have a majority above basic (proficient or higher is passing). Those who say the fault lies with the teachers, Republicans, Democrats, or Unions are mistaken. It lies with the students and parents most of the time. When I teach an advanced class, it's standing room only at back to school night and those parents check the grades weekly online and email me frequently. When I teach a class that is below grade level, only one or two out of thirty-five parents show up. They don't return phone calls or emails. When I do get in touch, they say they can't help because it's my job. They let their students stay home 2-3 days a week and sometimes keep their kid home to watch younger siblings so they can get their hair and nails done. Almost everyone at my school is on free or reduced lunch, yet the parents drive cars newer than mine and the students have cell phones I can't afford. I can't remember the link, but I read a story about a district--I think it was L.A. Unified--where they were afraid of going into school improvement. So, they took the entire teaching staff from the top scoring school and swapped them with the bottom scoring school, thinking the bottom scoring school would then improve so much they wouldn't have to go into school improvement. The next year they found the scores didn't change a bit. What is the solution to kids who refuse to do any work? First, we need an alternative education placement for students like that. Most other countries do. Second, what is taught must be realistic. Requiring junior high students to learn intermediate algebra with the quadratic formula and parabolas (that we didn't learn until late high school) is ridiculous. Third, students must want to succeed. When I was in school, we were poor so I worked my butt off so I wouldn't be like my parents with no education. Currently, the students live very comfortably on food stamps, with government assistance, and have money for cable t.v., cell phones, etc., because they get supplemented by tax money. Benjamin Franklin said, "If you want to help the poor, make them uncomfortable in their situation."
Good retort. And, it highlights something this thread was originally about. Maybe as a practicing teacher, you can comment on it.
Did, or does, NCLB actually help students achieve? Is the outsourcing of testing a factor, for good or for ill? Do the tests actually encourage learning, or is teaching to the test detrimental to learning?
We could argue the cause of failing schools and failing students all day, but let's look at what works and what doesn't work instead.
I'll be honest and say right up front that if I had my way, there would be no federal or even state Education Departments. The local people are perfectly capable of determining for themselves what their kids should be taught and how. IMHO, the only role state or federal agencies should play is to enable and support the decisions made by the local people.
However, that's not going to happen, so I guess we ought to stay within the current framework.
Well of course I never said union teachers are not interested in teaching children, I said their union isn't interested in teaching children, they are interested in representing their dues paying members. Sorry its a fact, it may make you uncomfortable to face that fact, but it is nonetheless a fact.
And, just who elects that leadership? Those very members who are down there with your kids before they eat their free breakfast and after they get on the bus in the afternoon.
Just as with any democratic institution, you simply cannot separate it's members from its governance. You're trying to make the case that the whole is not made up of its various parts and that the whole itself is evil, while denying that makes the individual members evil too.
Good retort. And, it highlights something this thread was originally about. Maybe as a practicing teacher, you can comment on it.
Did, or does, NCLB actually help students achieve? Is the outsourcing of testing a factor, for good or for ill? Do the tests actually encourage learning, or is teaching to the test detrimental to learning?
We could argue the cause of failing schools and failing students all day, but let's look at what works and what doesn't work instead.
I'll be honest and say right up front that if I had my way, there would be no federal or even state Education Departments. The local people are perfectly capable of determining for themselves what their kids should be taught and how. IMHO, the only role state or federal agencies should play is to enable and support the decisions made by the local people.
However, that's not going to happen, so I guess we ought to stay within the current framework.
NCLB did NOT help learning. What it did was dangle Fed $$$ for passing scores. So the goal is to pass the test. Teach to the test is what it's all about now. There is no HELP for failing schools; just the threat of taking away their Federal dollars.
And, just who elects that leadership? Those very members who are down there with your kids before they eat their free breakfast and after they get on the bus in the afternoon.
Just as with any democratic institution, you simply cannot separate it's members from its governance. You're trying to make the case that the whole is not made up of its various parts and that the whole itself is evil, while denying that makes the individual members evil too.
Of course you can separate the governed from the leadership. I guess you didn't read my Time link.
When Bush was President were your views indistinguishable from his?
Do you deny teachers pay union dues, that the union collects those dues, and in exchange represents the teachers best interests? What happens when the teachers and kids best interest conflict, as with Charter schools and School choice? Who's interests does the teachers union promote? If you answered their dues paying members, you woud be correct.
Most of us probably don't realize that No Child Left Behind has actually resulted in the shifting of our kids education from public employees to for-profit corporations. And, it's deeper than even I thought.
For some reason, whenever the GOP comes up with a new "good idea," it always results in putting public money into some corporations pocket. Why is that?
Unfortunately, the Obama administration's Race to the Top only adds fuel to the fire already set by GOP policies. RTTT mandates that teacher compensation be tied to teacher performance, which the states are determining by measuring student performance, hence, more tests. In Florida, some schools are spending almost two months of the school year in the administration of state mandated tests.
Unfortunately, the Obama administration's Race to the Top only adds fuel to the fire already set by GOP policies. RTTT mandates that teacher compensation be tied to teacher performance, which the states are determining by measuring student performance, hence, more tests. In Florida, some schools are spending almost two months of the school year in the administration of state mandated tests.
Here in Texas, most "learning" stops after Spring Break and the focus is on test taking.
Unfortunately, the Obama administration's Race to the Top only adds fuel to the fire already set by GOP policies. RTTT mandates that teacher compensation be tied to teacher performance, which the states are determining by measuring student performance, hence, more tests. In Florida, some schools are spending almost two months of the school year in the administration of state mandated tests.
That's true enough. RTTT was supposed to be like the anti-dote to NCLB but, in fact, it builds upon the same processes.
That's true enough. RTTT was supposed to be like the anti-dote to NCLB but, in fact, it builds upon the same processes.
IMHO it makes it worse because the teachers will now be at fault for kids failing the state tests.
Who in their right mind would want to take on the challenge of teaching in a low performing school ?
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