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Old 04-28-2012, 09:51 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,340,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Perhaps you don't get analogies but a less expensive product in stores is a good result. Who knows, given a little competition ability, we may end up with less expensive schooling for kids too; and as far as quality goes, it can't get any worse and will most likely get better.
I would love to know the background of the teacher who abused the autistic child. In my state, all it takes to be certified to teach special needs kids (autistic) is a bachelor's degree and a passing score on a relatively easy test. Every time I hear a horror story about a "teacher", I wonder how qualified they really are to be working with children.

In the past few years, many people who would have NEVER considered teaching as a career are doing so as a last resort - and only until they can get a 'real' job. Policies put in place by both parties are destroying teaching as a career and encouraging the practice of it being a transient profession, where people stay only a few years, which will definitely result in less expensive schooling for kids; and as far a quality goes, believe me, it can get a whole lot worse.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:52 AM
 
15,534 posts, read 10,507,413 times
Reputation: 15815
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Most of us probably don't realize that No Child Left Behind has actually resulted in the shifting of our kids education from public employees to for-profit corporations. And, it's deeper than even I thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/op...it_th_20120428

For some reason, whenever the GOP comes up with a new "good idea," it always results in putting public money into some corporations pocket. Why is that?

I like what they have done at my neighborhood school. The kids really respond to the volunteers and extra attention. I know the minority kids get excited working with someone like themselves who has made it in the business world. Imagine having a veterinarian or a video game inventor for your tutor.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
Is anyone still defending NCLB?
I think there's pretty much universal agreement that it was not good for education - both parties pretty much agree with that assessment.
So why hasn't Congress repealed it ? By 2014 all students have to be passing state tests..100% proficiency. Instead Congress is granting "exemptions" but they have to take on RTT instead.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:19 AM
 
161 posts, read 240,031 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Well of course I never said union teachers are not interested in teaching children, I said their union isn't interested in teaching children, they are interested in representing their dues paying members. Sorry its a fact, it may make you uncomfortable to face that fact, but it is nonetheless a fact.
Then why in the world did the district union conduct training classes for all new teachers my first year? Subs and trainers paid for by the union? ...at no expense to the schools.

Before for you go there, no. Not all were apart of the union and no they didn't push joining either. Does the idea of a union helping teachers help kids make you uncomfortable?
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:14 PM
 
180 posts, read 202,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I do not believe the parents or children in the US are any better or worse than parents and students around the world. Yet we get less bang for our buck. It is our system that is at fault.

No one would accept an argument against healthcare reform tht blames the patient. Why should we accept this argument with regard to education?
We have had many foreign exchange students live with us and I can tell you that you are dead wrong. Every student who comes here from every country we've hosted has said they study hours after school, usually until midnight. Many take summer classes to gain an advantage. These are not elite private school students, but public school students. They say that everyone in their countries study that way.

Also, I forgot to mention that I am not a member of the union and I am in favor of getting rid of the Department of Education.

As far as testing goes, you can't compare our tests with others accurately. Here is why: Even between states, students are not taking the same tests. In some states, 7th graders are tested on fractions while in others they are tested on algebra. Then the scores are compared. This is also true when one compares one country to another. Secondly, the test scores in our state include 100% of all students. This means that of the 750 students at our school, the scores of the special ed students, including the severely mentally disabled, as well as the non English speakers and limited English speakers' test scores are averaged in with everybody's bringing the average way down. If you have 90 students scoring 80 out of a 100 and 10 kids scoring 1 or 2 out of a hundred, it brings your score way down.
In other countries, they typically have two paths of education. Students test to stay in the academic course and those who don't score high are changed to a career or vocational path. After this, their scores aren't included. Only the top students are then tested and those scores are the ones you see compared to the U.S. scores.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:23 PM
 
180 posts, read 202,750 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
So why hasn't Congress repealed it ? By 2014 all students have to be passing state tests..100% proficiency. Instead Congress is granting "exemptions" but they have to take on RTT instead.
The NCLB act was passed by people who had no basic understanding of standardized tests. It was passed so bureaucrats could claim they were doing something. All students are given a standardized test. A standardized test means that the test was given to a sample of students to assess what the average score was. By definition, 50% score above and 50% score below the mean. The mandate then is passed that says that 100% of all students must score above 50% to be considered proficient or passing. This is the simplistic way of explaining it, but it's precisely what happened and by definition it is impossible for students/schools to achieve. This was just so the politicians could say schools are failing and they need to step in, take more control of funding, etc.
One problem with education is that nothing is ever evaluated or studied. We are told to implement "x" and after 2-3 years we are told to forget "x" and start program "y" until 2-3 years later when we are told that if we would only do "Q" then test scores will come up and students will do better, but wait until a couple years later when we are told to try "G" and eventually we get back to "X." Meanwhile there is never a comparison study or a blind or double blind study to track students and see what really works. Everything is based on anecdotal evidence that happened to work for one group at one school so then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
Is it the teachers' fault?
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,758,413 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglerdavis View Post
We have had many foreign exchange students live with us and I can tell you that you are dead wrong. Every student who comes here from every country we've hosted has said they study hours after school, usually until midnight. Many take summer classes to gain an advantage. These are not elite private school students, but public school students. They say that everyone in their countries study that way.

Also, I forgot to mention that I am not a member of the union and I am in favor of getting rid of the Department of Education.

As far as testing goes, you can't compare our tests with others accurately. Here is why: Even between states, students are not taking the same tests. In some states, 7th graders are tested on fractions while in others they are tested on algebra. Then the scores are compared. This is also true when one compares one country to another. Secondly, the test scores in our state include 100% of all students. This means that of the 750 students at our school, the scores of the special ed students, including the severely mentally disabled, as well as the non English speakers and limited English speakers' test scores are averaged in with everybody's bringing the average way down. If you have 90 students scoring 80 out of a 100 and 10 kids scoring 1 or 2 out of a hundred, it brings your score way down.
In other countries, they typically have two paths of education. Students test to stay in the academic course and those who don't score high are changed to a career or vocational path. After this, their scores aren't included. Only the top students are then tested and those scores are the ones you see compared to the U.S. scores.

Your experience doesn't contradict my claim he US kids and parents are no better or worse than those from around he world. It is our system that is flawed. By any measure we are obtaining mediocre results.

U.S. Falls In World Education Rankings, Rated 'Average'


These results are based on 15 year olds so, it is unaffected by the higher education differences you note.

Last edited by shorebaby; 04-28-2012 at 01:10 PM..
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,758,413 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockymtn View Post
Then why in the world did the district union conduct training classes for all new teachers my first year? Subs and trainers paid for by the union? ...at no expense to the schools.

Before for you go there, no. Not all were apart of the union and no they didn't push joining either. Does the idea of a union helping teachers help kids make you uncomfortable?
I guess you haven't been reading my posts. I said the unions existence is for its members, not the kids it's a fact. If the kids interest and their dues paying members interests are at odds! such as with charter schools and school choice, whose interests will the union promote. Yes, their dues paying members.
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