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Old 04-28-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,695 posts, read 3,053,603 times
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Is anyone still defending NCLB?
I think there's pretty much universal agreement that it was not good for education - both parties pretty much agree with that assessment.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
NCLB did NOT help learning. What it did was dangle Fed $$$ for passing scores. So the goal is to pass the test. Teach to the test is what it's all about now. There is no HELP for failing schools; just the threat of taking away their Federal dollars.
It reminds me very much of a training program developed by the Army many years ago. They may even still be using it, I don't know.

It was called the Skills Qualification Test (SQT) and it was based upon the theory that if you start with a series of tests which measures the ability to perform every single, solitary task a soldier in a certain Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) should be able to perform at any level of his professional development (identified by rank), then the outcome of having successfully passed those tests would be a well trained soldier. In effect, teaching to the test would result in skills learning.

It seemed to work OK for basic things, such as Drill and Ceremony, Basic Rifle Marksmanship and such other things a basic soldier needs to know, but as the soldier advanced in rank and responsibility, it worked less well on the intangibles of leadership, problem solving and critical thought.

NCLB and DTTT seem to be operating on the same principle and it probably does work well enough with such things as letter and number identification, basic math skills and reading, but how well does it work when a student leaves the primary grades and enters into classes which require independent study and thought?
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:20 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,211,485 times
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Originally Posted by wranglerdavis View Post
Those who say the fault lies with the teachers, Republicans, Democrats, or Unions are mistaken. It lies with the students and parents most of the time.
I wouldn't totally agree with "most of the time" but it's certainly a very large factor.

Quote:
Second, what is taught must be realistic. Requiring junior high students to learn intermediate algebra with the quadratic formula and parabolas (that we didn't learn until late high school) is ridiculous.
I think you need to teach to the level of the student, our system of putting students in classes based on their age has to change. I was surprised to learn my neice who is in 3rd or 4th grade is learning basic algebra and she knew it too, I gave her some basic problems and she was doing them in her head. That's great but I'm sure there is lot of students in her class struggling with it.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:24 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,354,743 times
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That's true enough. RTTT was supposed to be like the anti-dote to NCLB but, in fact, it builds upon the same processes.
Both plans are based on educational policy emanating from education "think tanks" that are funded by the very wealthy, who think that schools should be run like businesses.
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A few billion dollars in private foundation money, strategically invested every year for a decade, has sufficed to define the national debate on education; sustain a crusade for a set of mostly ill-conceived reforms; and determine public policy at the local, state, and national levels. In the domain of venture philanthropy—where donors decide what social transformation they want to engineer and then design and fund projects to implement their vision—investing in education yields great bang for the buck.
The above excerpt is from a long but very informative article that will open your eyes as to exactly who is determining policies for our nation's schools. Dissent Magazine - Winter 2011 Issue - Got Dough? How Billion... (http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=3781 - broken link)
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:26 AM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,645,558 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I like what they are doing here in PA. At first this will be piloted in the worst and poorest districts in the state. The student can apply to any public or private school and when accepted they take their state funding with them.

The public schools that are performing badly will go bye bye, public and private schools that perform well will be rewarded with more students and additional funding
Sounds about as good as it can get. Competition generally produces a better product!
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:28 AM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,645,558 times
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Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
Is anyone still defending NCLB?
I think there's pretty much universal agreement that it was not good for education - both parties pretty much agree with that assessment.
As a conservative, I know I agree.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,577,728 times
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Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
Both plans are based on educational policy emanating from education "think tanks" that are funded by the very wealthy, who think that schools should be run like businesses. The above excerpt is from a long but very informative article that will open your eyes as to exactly who is determining policies for our nation's schools. Dissent Magazine - Winter 2011 Issue - Got Dough? How Billion... (http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=3781 - broken link)

See? It didn't take long to get back to the original premise of this thread, did it? Corporate influence.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by doctrain View Post
Sounds about as good as it can get. Competition generally produces a better product!
I don't know about that. Competition between, say, Walmart and Sears has only resulted in a cheaper product.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:36 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,354,743 times
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Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
Is anyone still defending NCLB?
I think there's pretty much universal agreement that it was not good for education - both parties pretty much agree with that assessment.
RTTP is even worse. It has teacher's competing for very limited "bonus" dollars, which destroys the collegial atmosphere that, until recently, has always existed in US public schools.

During my 37 year teaching career, if I had a lesson plan or a teaching method that worked well for my class, I enthusiastically shared it with my fellow math teachers. If a new teacher joined our staff, all of us helped him/her with materials, classroom management, etc.

Not so today. It's every teacher for him/herself. New teachers - who are more and more coming into the classroom with only 2-4 weeks of training - are left to sink or swim on their own.

From what my still teaching friends and relatives tell me, there is very little joy in teaching these days, which is truly a shame.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:38 AM
 
3,064 posts, read 2,645,558 times
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
I don't know about that. Competition between, say, Walmart and Sears has only resulted in a cheaper product.
Perhaps you don't get analogies but a less expensive product in stores is a good result. Who knows, given a little competition ability, we may end up with less expensive schooling for kids too; and as far as quality goes, it can't get any worse and will most likely get better.
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