Obama Proposes Paying Teachers $20,000 More Per Year. (employment, minimum wage, high school)

[Isitmeorarethingsnuts?]

Originally Posted by scratchNsniff

This is where I totally disagree. It's the conservative mentality of less regulations that is killing this country.

Wasn't it Obama's Geithner that wrote the package that allowed the golden parachutes to the bailed out bankers?

There are plenty of laws and regulations on the books, they just aren't enforced. Do you think ignoring the laws and allowing 800,000 more people into the job market when our unemployment is so high was a good idea? The laws are there, they are just ignored. I don't think that was a Conservative that made those decisions.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Yooperkat

Obama Proposes Elite Corps Of Teachers : NPR

How about that?

It's just an attempt by the pseudo-federal government to take over education. That's always been the goal since the undersecretary of education was elevated to a full cabinet position.

Not amused...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Versatile

I think it is a great idea! We need more and better educators. Education will lift the economy and make us more competitive in the world.

Let's have an healthy dose of facts.

25.8% is the percentage of the 255 million working-age people in the US who have a college degree.

4.7% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in the United Kingdom
4.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Germany
3.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in France
3.1% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Spain

Just to put that into perspective, there are 65,790,000 people in the US with college degrees, while the entire population of Germany is 81,770,000 people. Note that the US has more people with degrees than the entire population of the United Kingdom = 62,232,000 people.

By the way, isn't education in Euro countries "free" (snicker)?

For those who still don't get it:

1 in 4 American workers has a college degree
1 in 25 British workers has a college degree
1 in 25 German workers has a college degree
1 in 33 French workers has a college degree
1 in 33 Spanish workers has a college degree

What were you saying?

Originally Posted by Versatile

Every time i read a liberal bashing i think of LYING, THIEVING, CROOKED, THINKING THEY ARE BETTER THAN ME REPUBLICANS.

I suppose you do that to take your mind off of the LYING, THIEVING, CROOKED, THINKING THEY ARE BETTER THAN ME DECMOCRATS.

Debunking....

Mircea

Originally Posted by MTAtech

I am for it too.

But, of course! You're for anything that takes money from other people.

Originally Posted by MTAtech

It is funny reading the conservative members here boo this proposal. You see, it's ok to reward corporate CEOs with hundreds of millions in bonuses under the premise that we can encourage better performance with incentives, but use the same rationale for teachers -- nah.

Originally Posted by BentBow

Public v. Private

Nice try at a spin.

Spin is the only thing they've got.

Nothing like using a Straw Man Argument. I didn't know CEOs were unionized.

Unspinning...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Ellwood

Cost to attend college is higher and higher.

Originally Posted by Ellwood

Guess they should have a crystal ball to know how the economy will be when they get a degree and choose an occupation that they will be miserable in the rest of their lives. Or go into the education field.

So?

Facts, Ellwood, facts:

25.8% is the percentage of the 255 million working-age people in the US who have a college degree.

4.7% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in the United Kingdom
4.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Germany
3.6% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in France
3.1% is the percentage of working age persons with degrees in Spain

Just to put that into perspective, there are 65,790,000 people in the US with college degrees, while the entire population of Germany is 81,770,000 people. Note that the US has more people with degrees than the entire population of the United Kingdom = 62,232,000 people.

Originally Posted by Ellwood

For someone to go to college, using student loans and graduating without a job, their future is very dim. How do they repay student loans with a $10 an hour job? Then there are those that can't afford to go to college at all.

I paid for two of three undergraduate degrees without Student Loans, and I paid for both graduate degrees without Student Loans. Anyone can do it, they just have to want to do it.

And yes that was just a few years ago.

Not needing Student Loans...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest

You mean like stopping government loans?

I'm not really for that, but I think government backed Student Loans should only be available to those students who score 2100+ on the SAT and demonstrate financial need.

For everyone else, there's VISA, MasterCard, Discover, American Excess, waiting tables (like I did), working in a meat-packing plant (like I did), working as a contractor for the federal government (like I did), working two part-time jobs (like I did), sharing an apartment with 2 and 3 other people to save money (like I did) and many more things.

Stop taking my money...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Jerseyt719

I think tenure needs to be done away with.

No, tenure does not need to be eliminated, but it does need to be changed, and unions have done everything in their power to prevent positive changes to tenureship.

Originally Posted by JimMe

You're pointing the finger at the wrong crowd. Conservatives have been advocating merit pay for good teachers for a long time and it has been the teachers' unions that have opposed the idea.

Yes, indeed. Good point.

Unions were expressly created in response to issues involving tenure, not sweat-shop slave labor conditions.

When I was pursuing a secondary education degree, several of us working with another group tried to effect changes in the tenure system in Ohio, and we were met with vigorous attacks by the unions.

For many States, tenure is granted at school district level -- which is stupid.

There's no teacher mobility. Once granted tenure at a school district, a teacher simply will not leave to teach anywhere else due to the fact that they lose tenure and have to regain it.

The solution then is to have the county grant tenure, based on objective criteria established for teachers to meet. Once granted tenure at the county level, the teacher is free to move anywhere in the county to teach. A second level of tenure would be granted by the State based on additional objective criteria, and once a teacher is granted tenure at the State level, you have massive teacher mobility, because a teacher can leave Three Rivers School District and go across the State to Lakeside School District and teacher without fear of losing tenure.

When we met with a group of State legislators in Columbus, I got into it with one of the union lobbyists. What was the logic of the unions in opposing multilevel tenure granted at the county and State level?

Their logic was that teachers wouldn't need unions.

When was the last time you ever saw a teacher's union going on strike to protest changes in curriculum?

Never. Teacher's unions only come out of the wood-work when they smell money.

Lobbying...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Big George

Some teachers have a disproportionately high number of students who come from dysfunctional homes. They simply are not dealing with the same "type" of students as those from more stable homes.

And dysfunctional families never existed in the past? What planet are you from?

Quizzically...

Mircea

[TrapperJohn]

Originally Posted by Big George

I would agree with that, except for the fact that no teachers are playing on a level field.

Some teachers have a disproportionately high number of students who come from dysfunctional homes. They simply are not dealing with the same "type" of students as those from more stable homes.

I agree 100% about the need to deal with bad teachers. However, parents have more to do with the learning process than do teachers - and that's what no school system can change.

That works both ways. That means the teachers working with bright kids from stable families are rewarded for the efforts of the parents and the students instead of their own efforts.

[jetgraphics]

Let's end government funded education.
(Horror!)
No parent will pay good money to send their child to a school that won't teach, can't teach, or promotes non-scholastic behavior - unless that is what the parent wishes.

The United States spent an average of $8701 per pupil to educate its children.
Put into perspective, a 30 student classroom is expending $261,030 per classroom.
Obviously, the teacher is not receiving the bulk of those funds.
Who is?
Administration. Overhead. Patronage. Corruption.

If all that the government provided was the school building AND NOTHING MORE, a teacher could be paid $60,000 per year, if each child's tuition was $2000 per year ($167 / month or $5.40 per day).

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by Yooperkat

Obama Proposes Elite Corps Of Teachers : NPR

How about that?

Can we cut benefits from Obamacare to pay for it?

[wharlem120s]

Damn I could of gotten 6 figures to be a phy ed teacher.....dam* I chose the wrong career path...smh

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by BucsLose

Funny how liberals demonize businesses yet when do they ever go after the Universities for what they charge for tuition? When do they ever go after the liberal professors for what they make?

Meh. I just figure liberals get what they deserve in that case... A life of debt slavery:

"Kelli Space is 23. She graduated from high school in 2005, and went to Northeastern University—"the first person in my family (including extended family!) to attend college," she says. Unfortunately, that may have deprived her of the opportunity to have someone tell her that the American college dream isn't all it's cracked up to be. Kelli emerged in May of 2009 with her diploma, and..."

$200,000 in nondischargeable student loan debt.

What $200,000 in Student Debt Looks Like

She'll be a debt slave for a l-o-n-g time, thanks to the liberals in higher education, the government who subsidized the student loan debt bubble, and the banksters who are raking in the profits on this left and right.

[RCCCB]

The last election the teacher's union funneled more than 400 million back to the Democrat party in donations, so it is in Obama's interest to pay teachers more as people are starving out here as to be sure the DNC and himself get more campaign cash.

In the name of children and education of course. HYPOCRITES.

[swbtoo]

Originally Posted by Versatile

I think it is a great idea! We need more and better educators. Education will lift the economy and make us more competitive in the world. Give them higher pay and demand more from them. Remember if it weren't for a teacher you would be posting here would you?

Is it education that leads you to conclude that higher pay leads to better educators?

We haven't been demanding enough from them, and giving them more money will improve their performance?

Originally Posted by BentBow

When there is utmost job security, higher pay does not equal a better education for our children. It emboldens the lazy to be lazier.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

Let's end government funded education.
(Horror!)
No parent will pay good money to send their child to a school that won't teach, can't teach, or promotes non-scholastic behavior - unless that is what the parent wishes.

The United States spent an average of $8701 per pupil to educate its children.
Put into perspective, a 30 student classroom is expending $261,030 per classroom.
Obviously, the teacher is not receiving the bulk of those funds.
Who is?
Administration. Overhead. Patronage. Corruption.

If all that the government provided was the school building AND NOTHING MORE, a teacher could be paid $60,000 per year, if each child's tuition was $2000 per year ($167 / month or $5.40 per day).

My local property taxes are suppose to pay for our schools and did for a long time with a big surplus. My property taxes exceed $2000 a year, now.
Then you have the State, funding the school districts with a % of the lotto, too.

Then comes along the Robinhood plan(robinhood was a thief) and no child left behind in an open borders nation.