Outsourcing - Saw it With My Own Eyes (Congress, drugs, highway)

[Oleg Bach]

Originally Posted by imokay

This is exactly what happens when you give businesses too many rights. Outsourcing should be ILLEGAL.
But of course, thanks to all the idiots who believe that the "free" in "free market" actually stands for some kind of freedom, this is not possible.

Why is the term protectionism considered dirty..That is is bad to hold up your arm to ward off a blow...or to make sure your family is fed before the ones across the street........The heads of corporations do not need a collection of 12 Porche cars in their huge garage. Nor do they need a home in five nations...Why do people think that if a nation makes you rich- you owe nothing to your nation of origin......that built you----

It is like me working for a company - giving it all my loyalty- my youth and energy- my ideas....then once they are crapping in gold plated toilet bowls - they dump you like a graduating law student that tosses out his waitress girl friend who slaved to put him through law school.

Ungrateful pigs....no one likes getting used. To justify this greed and disloyalty through the mantra of free enterprise and Darwinian idiocy - Is not a support of capitalism- but the destruction of it.

[Ariadne22]

Well, sooner or later, the political forces which encourage multi-nationalism and 1970s wages for US workers will find themselves without a political base. When you impoverish your constituents you are pretty much destroying yourself, imo. Unless, of course, the US educational system has done such a good job of encouraging stupidity that people will continue to shoot themselves in the foot - all the while subsisting on crumbs.

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by Hols36

You said: I can provide you proof that outsourcing doesn't necessarily correlate with profits like you imply. Well, I can provide you with proof that it does, which is beside the point, really. What I am interested in is the big picture, and the big picture tells me that corporations aren't outsourcing because they lose money doing so. The driving force behind outsourcing is cheap labor.

This is exactly right. There is a reason FedEx outsources its work to independent contractors. FedEx increases its bottom line. It logically follows that the indepependent contractor is earning less since he is paying both ends of his FICA - 15.3%, providing his own truck, gas, insurance, health insurance, retirement, disability, etc. etc., etc. FedEx profits go up, the worker loses.

This pretty much tells the story:

The Center for Public Integrity: FedEx fails to deliver for drivers

I worked with a woman whose husband had been a FedEx driver, later became an independent contractor. Definitely did not improve their situation, according to her.

No, outsourcing is only profitable for the big corporation - not the individual. And, of course, offshoring is even worse, because that results in loss of the US job entirely.

[Oleg Bach]

Reminds me of this pipe line that they want to build...saying how it will "create" jobs- Yah for a few years and then the oil will be shipped to China...and the profits sent to a few individuals who will continue to be billionaires ...and there will be no benefit to citizens in general....so who are they trying to fool here? These corporations who pillage their own family should get the boot- If a corporation is making billions from cheap labor in China or India...THEN there should be a law- All upper and middle management of said corporations should be forced to live in China or India..Let them be with those they employ- besides any citizen who is willing to destroy the middle class of their own nation should be expelled from that nation...I say exile all the CEOs to where their precious labor resides..

[Oleg Bach]

Some multi-national CEOs really love having the comfort of their home base on American soil. It's familiar- everyone knows your name-it's safe and you get wonderful housing...The national family is as such. You have a house with a dozen family members living in it- All is well because Dad started up a business years ago and the whole family is employed in the family business. One day dad decides that making 20 million a year in profit is not enough for him- He wants more- and he likes the superficial status of being even more rich-

So dad sneaks out of the house one morning and goes down the road to where there is a poor slum..He offers some workers a job...He sizes them up and knows they are desperate and in dire straits. Dad figure he can pay them next to nothing...and double his profits...so the deal is cut..


Dad returns home and in the morning he tells this family..."I will no longer be in need of your services- I am going to have to let you go". The family is very disappointed. Time passes and the family slowly goes into poverty...mean while Dad sits at the kitchen table counting his huge heap of money. Once in a while he looks up and says- "sorry kids but I had to down size and I had to cut costs to stay competitive...of course you understand".

Then dad goes over to the stove and starts to fry up some steak and eggs for his breakfast...The rest of the family looks on and he offers them nothing...so they eat some toast and black tea.....Finally the family has had enough--------Dad goes off to the slum to check on his business and maybe pay someone with a steak bone....When dad returns - he finds the locks have have been changed and there is a note on the door...


"Dear dad....we love you but we had to down size and we really can't afford to keep you around- we suggest that you rent a space in the slum....sorry"


That is what I would do with disloyal corporations . I would make them reside with their workers...Why do Americans want to grant comfort to those that have abandoned the national family?

[Oleg Bach]

Rationalization - "We are now part of an interwoven global economy" - That's a crock...What they are saying is that there are no more nations - or boarders or anymore real trade between empires..That it is a huge open market and real trade is a thing of the past. Trade has to have a line to cross- called a boarder....and in turn the other trader must send their money or goods across that line in return. With the removal of lines trade as we once knew it vanishes. In time the world becomes one big all powerful empire..with no one to trade with but it self...Kind of a sexless thing- a monetary masturbation of sorts.


Once a huge international empire has formed - run by an non elected corporate elite...the next natural thing takes place- more search for even cheaper labor and more need for more and more mindless profit-------at that point something old yet some thing new takes place.

THE EMPIRE BECOMES DEPENDENT ON SLAVERY. At this point if you want to be ahead of the game- You had better start passing some anit-slavery laws- cos sure as hell in time you will need them.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

No, outsourcing is only profitable for the big corporation - not the individual. And, of course, offshoring is even worse, because that results in loss of the US job entirely.

I highly doubt that you don't outsource yourself. Why do you do it?

Same with the OP. I highly doubt that you don't outsource....

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by NJBest

I highly doubt that you don't outsource yourself. Why do you do it?

Same with the OP. I highly doubt that you don't outsource....

WTH are you talking about?

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

WTH are you talking about?

You guys are making it sound like outsourcing is such a bad thing, yet we all do it. It enables us to get things done that we otherwise wouldn't be able to. If outsourcing is bad, why do you do it?

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Hols36

Outsourcing - Saw it With My Own Eyes.

That's it?

I recommended clients fire employees and out-source.

What's the point in spending $3.1 Million annually on lazy idiots in your compliance department, when you can fire the whole staff and contract a compliance consulting firm to do the exact same thing $1.1 Million?

Why should I have a 120 employees in my accounting and payroll department, when I can fire them and out-source that work to ADP?

Originally Posted by Hols36

They work for cheap. End. Of. Story. What proof can you offer that outsourcing is a critical component to the success of our economy?

I don't care about the success of your economy, and I don't have to prove anything. You have to prove that a company profits by not out-sourcing.

Originally Posted by Hols36

What it is a critical component of is corporate profit. As I said, corporations have an allegiance to profit and hang everything else, including America's unemployed, who, if we're honest about it (and if we count everyone who is unemployed, underemployed, part-timing, or simply out of the labor force but still wanting to work -- the 'real' unemployment rate, in other words) make up AT LEAST 20%+ of the population.

Okay, as I understand it -- and I want to make absolutely certain I'm hearing you correctly --- you're saying that you want the stocks in your 401(k) plan to perform without those companies making a profit....

...is that what you're saying? Because that isn't going to happen. If you want your 401(k) plan to have more than $3 in it when you retire, then corporations are going to have to make profits.

I guess we could ask another question: "Do you intend to buy stocks in order to lose money?"

You cannot get more communist than a corporation.

What is a corporation? Pure communism. Who owns and controls the Capital in a corporation, the CEO?

No, sorry, the share-holders ---- the people.

Originally Posted by Hols36

It's a shocking number. The 'official' BLS unemployment rate comes nowhere near to telling the real story.

Yes, I knew that 7 years ago and told everyone on C-D.

I said 3 years ago that your unemployment rate would finally get to 5% range in the year 2021.

At the same time your government said 5% by October 2012.

Then your government said 5% by December 2016.

Now your government is saying 5% by 2018.

Next year your government will say 5% by 2021 -- which is exactly what I said 3 years ago -- but don't start dancing yet, because they only reason it will be 5% is because many people just gave up looking for work -- your labor force participation rate will not be >66.5% -- which is most unfortunate, since that means you cannot fund Social Security or Medicare.

Originally Posted by Hols36

Setting aside the fact that if we COULD do something to make the U.S. a friendlier business environment -- if that were even possible -- then corporations would simply hire more people from India or other cheaper labor pools...why pay an American programmer 50 or 60K when they can get someone else for 35K, or less?

I have a better idea -- instead of a federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour, you need a federal maximum wage of $10/hour. That would make the US competitive in the Global Economy.

Originally Posted by Hols36

Explain to me how it is possible to make our country a better environment for businesses to hire, when U.S. corporations' tax burden (as a percentage of GDP -- Gross Domestic Product) is the lowest of all member nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development? Yes, the lowest.

What about subsidies?

Foreign corporations not only have a lower marginal tax rate than US corporations, but they are also subsidized by their respective governments.

Why would you ignore that fact?

You do understand that US corporations are fighting for their very lives, right?

How can Chevron possibly compete against Statoil, when Statoil is backed by the Norwegian government and the full financial weight and clout of Norway's GDP?

How is Ford supposed to compete against other automakers in India, when those automakers are all being subsidized by their governments, in addition to a lower marginal tax rate? Ford has to borrow money, uh, in part by selling stocks to shareholders to build its new plan in India. The Chinese government is giving its car companies money to build the plant, and so are the Japanese, and so are the Koreans, and so are the Germans and so are the French.

How can Ford compete against them, when they are getting free money, or 0% loans, or low interest loans, and subsidies?

You might want to think about that.

Economically...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

Why is the term protectionism considered dirty.

Because it has never worked. Because the US population is only 312 Million and not 780 Million.

Originally Posted by Oleg Bach

To justify this greed and disloyalty through the mantra of free enterprise and Darwinian idiocy - Is not a support of capitalism- but the destruction of it.

And the US government wouldn't be greedy at all, right?

I'll tell you a bed-time story. Once upon a time, a country called Colombia had an idea to build a canal through its province of Panama. Colombia had the money, but didn't have the engineering know-how or the man-power and technical expertise. So Colombia asked the United States for help, and was willing to share the profits from the canal 50-50.

The US -- not being greedy -- decided that having 100% of the profits was better than having 50% of the profits, so the US gathered up a mercenary army, sent it to the Colombian province of Panama, and started a civil war in the province seceded and then the US military swooped in to protect it's investment, uh, I mean the new country of Panama.

I'll tell you another bed-time story. Once upon a time, there was a country called the United States that owned a canal through Panama and collected 100% of the profits. The peoples and governments of South America asked the US to help build a trans-Andean highway, rail-road and pipelines for oil and natural gas -- repeatedly -- decade after decade after decade for 70 years. The US said "Not no, but Hell no!" because that would cut into the profits the US made off the canal -- and remember the US is not greedy.

Eventually the US gave up the canal, turning control over to Panama, who then sold the canal to China. When the people and governments of South American asked to China to help build a trans-Andean highway, rail-road and pipelines for oil and natural gas, then Chinese said, "When do we start?" -- see China doesn't care if it hurts their profits -- it's the right thing to do for the people.

Anyway, the US government would not be less greedy than your greedy corporations.

Historically....

Mircea