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The op has given a few examples and would have us believe that this reflects the majority of conservatives.
Thats a mighty wide brush we are painting with. I am not religious. I lean towards buddhist. But I am conservative. meaning I believe in fiscal responsibility, personal accountability and small goovernment.
I cut my neighbors 3 acres of grass because they are in their 70's. I dont bully them, I love them as second parents.
I am not catholic but I donate to a local convent.
I donate to smile train.
I donate to various autism foundations.
I was raised hard and yet I dont do any of the things the OP suggests are norms for conservative people.
The wide brush- I'm talking about the evil that hijacked conservative ideology and representation. The presumption that it's a personal attack against half the country only plays into the hands of those committing the crimes and profiting from strife.
You mention being raised hard-- I was too, but not because adults went out of their way to make things harder on me just to see me squirm. Being poor & holding tight to personal ethics was hard enough and acquiring those muscles was a right of passage key to my survival in secular world. Your definition of hard- did your dad throw you head long into a lake and call it a swimming lesson? I'm thinking not. That kind of senseless punitive behavior is an abdication of teaching that blames the student in a closed loop of never ending punishment. The only thing being taught is that they shouldn't try at anything, save for avoiding authoritarians. An administrative failure on the part of the parent that guarantees the young adult will be fearful of those who could help them. Sincere LE, clergy, social workers, teachers... anyone with a tablespoon of authority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
I am so disappointed in you Harbor lady.
I'm disappointed in those who harmed children with sexual abuse hiding behind the cloth. I'm disappointed in Joe Paterno, Jerry Sandusky, and ESPECIALLY in school administrators who didn't do their jobs but left all others holding the blame to save face. Yes, it does happen elsewhere too, but it shouldn't happen anywhere. Those who have changed the terms and conditions of employment are the ones worthy of ire.
So what is it you're disappointed about? What's my crime? I'm not putting all people in jail the way so many outside these hills use the state of WV as an American version of a Polish joke. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this sickness that dispirits and abuses an entire region of people. But... you'd rather sweep it under a rug? Because... 'if you're white, you're out of sight' is OK with you?
The wide brush- I'm talking about the evil that hijacked conservative ideology and representation. The presumption that it's a personal attack against half the country only plays into the hands of those committing the crimes and profiting from strife.
You mention being raised hard-- I was too, but not because adults went out of their way to make things harder on me just to see me squirm. Being poor & holding tight to personal ethics was hard enough and acquiring those muscles was a right of passage key to my survival in secular world. Your definition of hard- did your dad throw you head long into a lake and call it a swimming lesson? I'm thinking not. That kind of senseless punitive behavior is an abdication of teaching that blames the student in a closed loop of never ending punishment. The only thing being taught is that they shouldn't try at anything, save for avoiding authoritarians. An administrative failure on the part of the parent that guarantees the young adult will be fearful of those who could help them. Sincere LE, clergy, social workers, teachers... anyone with a tablespoon of authority.
I'm disappointed in those who harmed children with sexual abuse hiding behind the cloth. I'm disappointed in Joe Paterno, Jerry Sandusky, and ESPECIALLY in school administrators who didn't do their jobs but left all others holding the blame to save face. Yes, it does happen elsewhere too, but it shouldn't happen anywhere. Those who have changed the terms and conditions of employment are the ones worthy of ire.
So what is it you're disappointed about? What's my crime? I'm not putting all people in jail the way so many outside these hills use the state of WV as an American version of a Polish joke. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this sickness that dispirits and abuses an entire region of people. But... you'd rather sweep it under a rug? Because... 'if you're white, you're out of sight' is OK with you?
Im not disappointed I am disgusted by those people. Has it occured that the only thing conservative about them is the rhetoric they spew?
WOW. And just how does this relate to conservatives? I see nearly ALL THE CRIMES IN AMERICA committed by men and women who have-
1. one parent families
2. history of drug abuse
3. low education
4. lack of parental control and guidance as a child
5. psychological and psychiatric disorders
This is the democratic demographic, which, of course, commits nearly all the crime in America.
There's no demographic for white collar crime when they wrote laws for themselves to make sure no one can enforce it. The OP scum couldn't come close to killing 1000 people a day and call it making a living. The difference between himself and sociopaths in military industrial complex/ board rooms is that he doesn't have a herd of middle men putting on airs of respectability in the commission of their crimes.
You're pointing at a chicken egg argument but ignore that the original assault (fiscal) takes place on the breadwinner of a household. One parent families are also in the military when one is gone, or is killed in the line of duty. One parent families are also individuals divorcing an abusive/ drug abusing spouse. All of the above does culminate to inhibit or suppress the quality of the education available to the child. Parental control/ guidance is absent in homes working excessive hours. Some of them have 3 p/t jobs.
Psychological and psychiatric disorders that are most difficult to treat are the ones that occurred at critical growth stages in a child's life. The earlier the damage, the more likely it will remain a lifelong theme. Low income housing also has the habit of permanently hobbling development with things like lead exposure. Mining operations tends to release arsenic into the ecosystem throughout the Appalachian region. There are dozens more carcinogens just like it. Mutagens too. Other damage gets inflicted mechanically through cultural norms. Study links physical punishment of kids to adult mental disorders
Quote:
Children who are spanked, hit, or pushed as a means of discipline may be at an increased risk of mental problems in adulthood — from mood and anxiety disorders to drug and alcohol abuse, new research suggests.
The cure for an undiagnosed case of autism is not corporal punishment, and corporal punishment does not resolve damage done through corporal punishment. It's a dysfunctional loop that escalates violence.
So what are poor democrats, and even those who have run afoul with the law, really hoping government can deliver for them? The cartoon answer republicans drew is that they want free money. Untrue. Look again what they want, what they're trying to rid themselves of, and what they aspire to be as individual people and as a community. Republican 'leadership' in WV are commodities brokers and propaganda peddlers in FOX affiliates mocking the religious. Nothing more.
Im not disappointed I am disgusted by those people. Has it occured that the only thing conservative about them is the rhetoric they spew?
Agreed.
The greater context of the region over centuries is what I'm trying to bring to light. The state of WV is ground zero for every ridiculous bit of crap peddled by 3rd actors hijacking principles for personal gain. It's been ground zero for national ideological battles prior to civil war right up to present tense reality.
A story you might appreciate: Booker T. Washington's West Virginia Boyhood
Caught in the crossfire are New Englands academic/ religious liberals setting the moral tone for justice through Viola Ruffner, the Conservative leadership of Gen Ruffner struggling to materially forge civilization, and Booker T Washington struggling to self actualize in an unjust climate that made little room for him to exist. These characters weren't shooting at one another, factually they were cooperative serving the better interests of the state, but each of them were first separated from one another, then persecuted... by whom and what?
It remains true to this very day plaguing political discourse. The villains animating dysfunction and destruction remain hidden from the view of that eras historians and todays media.
The silver lining of this states relative isolation is that they've had plenty of time to mull over just how insane the people outside these hills have been. The media & stereotypical claim that this is Klan country has served as a self deportation of low rent Klan in Alabama/ Ga/ SC thinking they've found 'like minded community'. They truly aren't welcome here. The claim that this is Klan country has served as a self deportation of Philly and Pittsburg blacks looking to confront Klan and recreate a civil rights moment rather than be decent neighbors. They too aren't welcome here. The 2 neighborhoods in Charleston aren't along the lines that real estate brokers drew up. One neighborhood is integrated working class, and the other is integrated gangland that klan and NOI mete out on the streets leaving all others as collateral damage.
It's economically & culturally motivated. It's the aversion to the terms and conditions of employment squaring off with their sense of personal dignity and their moral compass. A native black or white, likely accomplices, could have done this. These vandals are philosophically parallel to Luddites. It may be wrong how they've gone about making their point, but are they entirely wrong? Should youth aspire to compete with a machine to the death in some misguided notion of building a life? Should youth aspire to abandon reverence for their own lives in exchange for a buck in "the company store" currently calling itself Walmart?
Nonetheless, not a flattering statistic that one will see on the Obama campaign advertisements.
'Conservative' billboards have been erected this past year in WV. One in particular implies that a black man stole their coal jobs. It's getting drive-by shot at and the county is chuckling at GOP's expense. I didn't shoot it, but I'm chuckling with them. For you to figure out who is doing the shooting, you'd have to drop every stereotype planted in your mind. But you can't. Why is that so?
"Conservative" NRSC pac ads:
"Hick Ad" draws fire in West Virginia - YouTube
Mike Stuart WV GOP chair= commodities broker installed in political capacity void of commitment to the state proud of his contempt for constituents.
"They look like WV'ns to me". Some folks see nothing more and nothing less than they want to see. In this state, those folks call themselves Republicans, which is why most moderate Republicans live on the Democratic ticket. It's also further evidence of throwing elections in Kabuki theater to advance strategic initiatives and keeping representation on a tight yoke to service "it". "It" is not American and "it" has undermined both conservatives and liberals. Both dems and repubs politically obliged to offer up serial non choices. "It" needs to be put out of it's misery permanently.
And "It" is what their representation was sent to deal with in DC
"Darth Raese" - John Raese Crazy Ideas No. 1 - Joe Manchin for WV - YouTube
Whatever anyone cares to say about Joe Manchin, he likely will be re-elected because he's asserting meaningful debate with anti-coal point by point. He means to achieve fair resolution, but he's still leaning too hard in favor of coal. Which is why Charlotte Pritt is his legitimate opponent in the Mtn party.
John Raese married into money and owns the corporate agenda sitting in the GOP chair for this state from remote control in Florida. He has near monopolistic control of the media and folks with the sense God gave geese shun him. Corporate culture is not compatible with Appalachian culture.
That day in the parking lot, you were no friend, and he was no friend of you," Kanawha Circuit Judge Carrie Webster told Mullins, 50, during his sentencing hearing. "You had to have seen the vulnerability of this man."
Webster sentenced Mullins to 25 years in prison for the kidnapping of 84-year-old George Jacobs. The sentence was 25 years less than what prosecutors had recommended for Mullins, whom they say has made a career of bullying elderly people out of money.
I'm not here to say I'm an angel," he said, "but I never kidnapped nobody."
~~ snip from article
Truly a disgrace. A 50 year old man bullying frail elderly people for money. The victim later died. Mullins' defense cannot pay that family back in restitution.
Ignorance and bigotry, as well as bullying need to stop being ignored in American "society"
I have reread what Harborlady posted... Slowed down to really comprhend. I normally agree with her to the tune of about 80% of the time and I want to be fair.
I see the point she is trying to make especially about how the church system in many places hold the masses in check.
Religion is dogma. It was invented as tool to control the masses. History is in deed filled will glaring examples dating back to before christ.
Think this way or else.
Act this way or else.
Humans are a community animal. Most can not survive let alone do well alone. The result is the need to conform...
I knew a family with a severly autistic child. They refused to medicate the child because do to their hardcore baptist faith they believed that medication wasn't natural. The child is in an institution now. If proper care had been given, as well as the right kinds of structure the child could have grown up and been introduced to an assisted living enviroment.
I agree with harbor lady that to often the church and the dogma associated with it can be devestating.
Moving on.
Look at this forum. One might say it is a microplasm of society without the many restrictions. People tend to spew things they would never say face to face with others.
I grew up in a hard core union town. The local paper went on strike. I had a paper route. My family was dirt poor. I kept my route and continued delivering the paper. I was 10 years old.....
I had adults chase me with their cars. I found my bike destroyed run over by a car. I certainly didnt park it in the street when I went to the store for my mother. Adults preying upon children... welcome to the Wyoming Valley. Home of the kids for csh scandal.
I disagree that it is a (conservative ) authoritarian issue. I believe it is an ignorance issue.
My uncle used to say that you can forgive stupid people for being stupid. We aren't all born smart.
Ignorance is never forgivable because that is by choice. You see a better way and ignore it, you know its wrong but excuse it. That is ignorance.
I 'm on the same page as the tinman on this one. Along with a few thoughts from a conversation about this very same subject with my daughter yesterday.
I was raised in a cotton mill town by a hard shell Baptist grandma, in a mill house. When grandpa finished working on the machines at the mill he read the paper, listened to baseball and said the only person fit to be president was John L. Lewis. He voted Republican his whole life.
Momma was molested by her preacher uncle when she was 12. All but her daddy said it was her fault for being provocative. She left NC as soon as she was big enough. Married a man whose job was to make cars go fast to avoid the government men. He also drank. Momma left him and we moved to Texas with her second husband. He molested kids, too.
Having no control over anything caused me to be very controlling to get some order in my life. I was in church every time the door was opened and had read the Bible from cover to cover twice by the time I was 25. I thought the world judged me based on how my kids performed, consequently I was very authoritarian. I just about ruined my 2 oldest kids. By the 3rd. I understood the difference between being an authoritarian and parenting with authority.
While coming out of my ignorance, I also came to understand that there are a lot of folks who know better, and will take advantage of ignorance in any form. They say one thing and do another. Many of them make their living politics, in pulpits or advertising or banking.
We all need to be vigilant at all times because they are so good at convincing. Their need for cannon fodder will cause them to create a crappy education system that most of us thinks is the best in the world. They will tell us everybody needs to own their own homes because people with a mortgage to pay can't strike or tell the boss to take this job and shove it. They will tell our kids in order to have a good career, they need to go to college, and here take this money, you can pay me back when you have a terrific job. They can convince us that paying twice as much as the rest of the world will yield us the best medical care. They convince us that buying stuff we don't need on a credit card where we pay 15% interest is good for us.
Somehow the citizens of the good ol USA have raised a whole lot of amoral sociopaths. We have given them control of our lives in government, in church and in our communities.
There's no demographic for white collar crime when they wrote laws for themselves to make sure no one can enforce it. The OP scum couldn't come close to killing 1000 people a day and call it making a living. The difference between himself and sociopaths in military industrial complex/ board rooms is that he doesn't have a herd of middle men putting on airs of respectability in the commission of their crimes.
You're pointing at a chicken egg argument but ignore that the original assault (fiscal) takes place on the breadwinner of a household. One parent families are also in the military when one is gone, or is killed in the line of duty. One parent families are also individuals divorcing an abusive/ drug abusing spouse. All of the above does culminate to inhibit or suppress the quality of the education available to the child. Parental control/ guidance is absent in homes working excessive hours. Some of them have 3 p/t jobs.
Psychological and psychiatric disorders that are most difficult to treat are the ones that occurred at critical growth stages in a child's life. The earlier the damage, the more likely it will remain a lifelong theme. Low income housing also has the habit of permanently hobbling development with things like lead exposure. Mining operations tends to release arsenic into the ecosystem throughout the Appalachian region. There are dozens more carcinogens just like it. Mutagens too. Other damage gets inflicted mechanically through cultural norms. Study links physical punishment of kids to adult mental disorders
The cure for an undiagnosed case of autism is not corporal punishment, and corporal punishment does not resolve damage done through corporal punishment. It's a dysfunctional loop that escalates violence.
So what are poor democrats, and even those who have run afoul with the law, really hoping government can deliver for them? The cartoon answer republicans drew is that they want free money. Untrue. Look again what they want, what they're trying to rid themselves of, and what they aspire to be as individual people and as a community. Republican 'leadership' in WV are commodities brokers and propaganda peddlers in FOX affiliates mocking the religious. Nothing more.
That said alot of nothing. The fact remains that prisons are overwhelmingly populated by democrats (73% of inmates describe themselves as democrats). Apparently there is a high correlation between being a democrat and a criminal. Why?
1. single parent families
2. low education and culture that discourages education
3. welfare dependent families which lack work ethic
4. psychological problems
5. drug and alcohol problems
6. lack of discipline
These are democratic "values" that have been firmly entrenched in the democratic constituency since LBJ's "Great Society" initiative. You reap what you sew.
Are some of us so focused on things political that we can't see that most of the country does not give a damn? To assert that prison are populated by one group or another sure does narrow understanding.
Old joke, if you want to catch a a politician in an illegal act you need a camera for Democrats and an accountant for Republicans.
This list is silly, Hawkeye
We all know single moms from all sides of the political spectrum.
Psychological problems know no boundaries.
Neither do drunks and druggies.
Neither do folks who lack discipline.
Most of the folks in my school district that is run by Baptists, Lutherans and Mormons who vote Republican have no idea what kids need to learn in school.
I cannot speak to welfare recipients who lack work ethics because the folks I know who get government handouts are employed. The first that comes to mind is my neighbor who went to West Point on the government dime, then went to the Corp until he retired, then went to KBR. Spent his whole life living on taxpayer money. Or next door. He never voted democratic, can't stand Obama, thinks the stimulus was an outrage. He gets his weekly paycheck from a social services agency that weatherizes homes for low income people. All the funds are from the stimulus.
Serious cognitive dissonance going on.
And we are all being played by opportunists who keep us fighting each other so we don't go after them.
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Because... 'if you're white, you're out of sight' is OK with you? 
Ground Zero America
