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If you have no desire to insult anyone's religion, please do yourself a favor and learn a bit more about Judaism... starting with the "G-d's Chosen People" part, which means nothing even CLOSE to what you assume. It actually means the opposite, how the Jews have been "chosen" to endure extra hardships to prove our worth. Gentiles should feel more special/lucky than Jews, for being granted a pass on this - and no Jewish scholar would ever claim this means we're "better" than anyone else. We weren't chosen as higher beings, we were chosen to suffer. In a nutshell, at least.
From your statements, I must assume to know more about Judaism than you apparently do. And I will tell you that I do not focus my study of any topic from an opposing vantage point as so many do in error. I inspect and consider the source material whenever possible ... in this case, passages from the Torah, Talmud, and other important Rabbinical Laws and teachings. And I can say with the utmost certainty that your claims are in direct contradiction to that source material, and can be dismissed as similar deceptive rhetoric often presented by Muslims when responding to challenges to the Quran's passages that direct Muslims to vanquish and kill all infidels wherever they be found. How one can take such clear language out of context, continues to escape me. And so it is with Judaism, and it's separate classification of people into two basic categories ... the Jew, and the non-Jew ... and I've studied the Jewish writings from those Jewish scholars that you claim don't exist ... and their own words prove your claims untrue, as does hundreds upon hundreds of passages spread out across Judaic scripture, for which space here would not allow me to even graze the surface. You need to expand your studies a bit, I think, so I shall endeavor to assist you with that effort.
Now this is extremely important within the context of the Rothschild dynasty, and it's egregious activities spanning countless decades dating back prior to the Napoleonic wars. The fact is, this status of "Superiority" that you insist doesn't exist, is precisely the mindset these Rothschild criminals have relied on to justify their actions throughout this era. Not at all unlike the various European Royalty who claimed divine providence as their authority to subjugate and rule over the masses. This mindset is present in every dictator and every despotic regime throughout history ... including the Nazis who claimed aryan superiority as the justification for their ethnic cleansing of Jews. For that reason alone, Jews should be the most outspoken opponents of such attitudes ... not adherents to their own version of it.
Nevertheless, the Torah begins with the basic premise that only God should be worshiped, and that idolaters should be punished with death. The fact that according to Judaic teachings, Jesus or Yeshua was a man and not God, therefore categorizes all Christians who embrace the holy trinity as idolaters by definition. The Torah contains many passages that define the proper conduct of Jews, as they must behave toward and treat fellow Jews, while being permitted to treat gentiles less favorably. This flies in the face of your claims to the contrary, and demonstrates clearly the philosophy of Jewish superiority. These passages are very tame, compared to the more overtly vile contents of the Talmud, such as:
"The Akum is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30.
"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still ANIMALS in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225,
"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b.
"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377.
Now, I'll stop here .. as it is not my intention to inflame emotions ... but this evidence was demanded by your claims to the contrary. And to be fair, one can find similar attitudes in the Islamic faith which similarly classifies non-Muslims as infidels of lesser human value for which killing or deceiving them is no crime at all.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
And that's the only real answer I can offer, since I'm not entirely capable of addressing the rest. Firstly, I don't need to (and cannot) explain why we're so historically hated - that is on the haters' shoulders, as prejudice deserves no justification.
Of course you NEED to ... if you're going to level the accusation that the entire world has persecuted Jews simply for being Jews, you ought to be able to cite your reasons for believing that with a little more evidence than simply what you've been taught to believe. Based on the above Talmud passages, can you not see that as cause for others to respond negatively? Or do you think this is much ado about nothing?
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
I also know ZILCH about the Rothschild family and their supposed powers, which is why I can neither condemn nor confirm anything they've done. Where did you get the idea I was protecting or defending them, anyway?
I don't care if you believe it or not, my only point was that this particular conspiracy is often based in anti-Semitism. I've only heard of them thanks to Internet forums & blogs, where the theories are almost ALWAYS paired with anti-Semitic rhetoric... so that's where I connect the two, and it's not just because they're Jewish. I don't think people hating Bernie Madoff (as one example) is rooted in anti-Semitism, for goodness sakes. Hopefully you all get my point now, instead of jumping on the "sensitive Jews cry anti-Semitism at everything" wagon - which I really never do, as you'll see if you search my posting history. Actually, I usually avoid all Jewish & Israel-related discussions altogether, because again I don't really give a crap.
Look, there is a reason why I've taken the time to dissect your posts. That purpose is to dispel the myth you are promoting. It's not truthful. And I'm not claiming that you are being purposely untruthful, just that you are promoting an untruth. Perhaps you are operating under a false belief? In any case, I'm an advocate of verifiable, documentable truth, not false beliefs. And if that truth conflicts with your beliefs, that's your issue to deal with.
You say on one hand that you know "ZILCH" about the Rothschild family or it's historical activities, while in the same breath dismiss criticisms as just more of the same old anti-Semitic attitudes. Big problem here ... if you lack the knowledge of those activities, you cannot also legitimately dismiss opponents of the Rothschild criminals as doing so based on anti-Semitic motives. It's totally illegitimate to do that. If the behavior of these Rothschild criminals are deplorable, then denouncing that behavior cannot be assigned any other motive other than just cause.
So, the moral of this story is ... if indeed the world has singled out Jews for persecution as you so strenuously contend, may I suggest that if true, it can only be considered a natural response to Judaism's classifying all non-Jews as inferior beings, akin to apes. Expect no warm reception from we, the non Jewish inferior animal types.
Biting the hand that beats you is not an act of aggression.
Wow, I would expect more feedback from such an opinionated political board. I guess staged elections and the made for tv reality drama that is US politics are keeping everyone's attention as intended.
Use "search forum" at top right of P and OC.
You will get thousands of initial threads and posts on this issue.
Yes, I have seen such arguments and comments equating Israel and Jews on this forum and elsewhere.
I didn't say they were Jewish. I would have no idea. Why would it matter?
I wasn't referring to you. In no way did I imply such a thing. Why would you just assume that?
Simply commenting on an observation.
Did I say I think racism doesn't exist?
Sorry, but you seem to be the one making baseless accusations.
Got quite the drama going there, lol.
Riiiiight... because the fact that you were commenting after my post had NO connection to me whatsoever. Okay, LOL.
Not being dramatic, just pointing out the obvious flaws & assumptions in your post. I stand by what I said, whether you meant to direct it towards me or not. Do you deny this theory is usually accompanied by anti-Semitism? If so, you are being very naive.
But you do have things very wrong, and please don't insult me by saying your Talmud quotes know more than somebody who was raised in the faith. Seriously... we don't think you are inferior, at least not those of us outside the fringe extreme. The Christian Bible says many hateful and crazy things, no? So is it fair for me to excuse anti-Christian behavior as "they're asking for it because of *insert offensive Bible quote*?"
Again, I am basing my statements on MANY examples seen throughout the Internet... and it doesn't matter if I study the family's history or not, when the hate exists it simply exists. I do not assume ALL criticisms are rooted in hate, I have only said that's where these debates typically end. And if you had seen the statements to which I am referring, I think you might understand what I mean. Or do you think comments such as "the evil Joos are destroying our country and should take their arses back to Israel" are simply a critique of this one family? C'mon now, I'm not stupid!!
Carry on denying it if you so desire, but do some searches outside of C-D if you want to see where I got these ideas. Haven't you ever heard of this being a conspiracy theory, along with the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and "Illuminati?" I mean really, these have all be KNOWN conspiracy theories & anti-Semitic fuel for like decades. Here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rothschild+cons...y+anti-semitic
You will get thousands of initial threads and posts on this issue.
Thanks for the tip. I tried that though and wasn't satisfied with the results. Most are months old and a fresh discussion is better than digging through posts. I mean how many presidential election threads are there compared to this? People are going crazy over something they have no control over, yet when the criminals that are ruling this planet are brought up, its shot down like it doesn't matter.
Thanks for the tip. I tried that though and wasn't satisfied with the results. Most are months old and a fresh discussion is better than digging through posts. I mean how many presidential election threads are there compared to this? People are going crazy over something they have no control over, yet when the criminals that are ruling this planet are brought up, its shot down like it doesn't matter.
Maybe (and I'm giving this as an HONEST suggestion) it's shot down because of its history, and the less-than-credible sources which imply something is amiss? If you can give us some REAL sources, and by that I don't mean a YouTube video, it might be a topic worth discussing further... but in all of the threads I've seen on this family, the only "evidence" has been personal YouTube videos, blogs, opinion pieces, etc. So perhaps that's why it isn't taken so seriously? I even tried to do some research myself, and all I can come up with is stuff about it being a debunked conspiracy theory.
FWIW, I also don't take any presidential-related threads seriously if their sources are bunk.
But you do have things very wrong, and please don't insult me by saying your Talmud quotes know more than somebody who was raised in the faith. Seriously... we don't think you are inferior, at least not those of us outside the fringe extreme. The Christian Bible says many hateful and crazy things, no? So is it fair for me to excuse anti-Christian behavior as "they're asking for it because of *insert offensive Bible quote*?"
What is this "we" stuff? You got a mouse in your pocket? I'll accept that "you" don't think non-Jews are inferior ... but really now ... are we to believe that the Talmud is a fringe element, inconsequential to the mainstream Jewish faith? Or is it just extremely inconvenient when addressing these matters in the presence of gentiles? I just tossed out a few passages ... there are hundreds of them.
But let's be clear, the Torah IS the Bible ... I mean, am I confused? Now I assume you are referring to the New Testament as the "Christian Bible", as opposed to the Old Testament which is the Jewish Bible? That be the case, if one should compare the two ... the New Testament seems to be extremely tame by comparison, and I can find nothing remotely close to the Old Testament teachings in the teachings attributed to Jesus. Perhaps we can enlighten each other? If there are any references to non-Christians as animals or less than human in the Christian bible, I have no knowledge of it. The only thing I see is the rather universal theme of "if you don't believe as we do, you will be denied eternal life", which seems to be consistent among the big three, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I just don't see the commands for Christians to kill non-Christians as is often seem in the Islamic and Judaic religious texts.
Like I said .. I accept your word that you do not consider yourself superior to all others because you're a Jew. But don't tell me that is not what Judaism teaches ... because it is contained in the very text of the Torah, the Talmud, and the Rabbinical laws that make up the foundation of Orthodox Jewry. I'm not making this stuff up. It's there for all to inspect for themselves, including you. If your spiritual teachings have skipped over those parts, well good. And I dare say that most average persons do skip over those less than "Godly" parts of the scriptures , Jews, Christians and Muslims too. Nevertheless, leadership and what they believe is really the issue here, not what you personally believe.
And without going into a long diatribe of modern examples, like the inflammatory and rather diabolical statements of prominent Rabbis who say such things as "One million Arabs are not worth one Jewish fingernail" for which there is a veritable smorgasbord of examples to cite ... perhaps you'd rather remain in denial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
Again, I am basing my statements on MANY examples seen throughout the Internet... and it doesn't matter if I study the family's history or not, when the hate exists it simply exists. I do not assume ALL criticisms are rooted in hate, I have only said that's where these debates typically end. And if you had seen the statements to which I am referring, I think you might understand what I mean. Or do you think comments such as "the evil Joos are destroying our country and should take their arses back to Israel" are simply a critique of this one family? C'mon now, I'm not stupid!!
And like I said, it is commonly known that Jews are indoctrinated at a very early age in this perpetual victimhood, for which plenty of Jews both readily admit, and reject. This is a ploy to keep the clan together in that "us versus them" mentality. And that serves no one's best interests, including Jews.
Personally .. (and I think this is true of most decent people) ... I judge others based on their behavior, irrespective of their religious affiliation, or lack thereof. I'm rather neutral in the sense that while I believe in a creator, I do not ascribe to any of the organized religions. This was a revelation I had by the age of 9, after some years in Catholic training I discovered some gaping holes and inconsistencies in the philosophy, even at that tender age. You can only imagine my take on it now. I personally cannot look at the current Pope without thinking "Devil" ... just one look at the eyes of that guy stands the hair on my neck. But there are loads of wonderful Christian people whom I have had much interactions, so I don't hold the pope against them.
I can honestly say that I won't hold the Rothschilds against you .. in the same spirit ... so long as you don't enjoin yourself to them by these tactical denials. IF you do ... that is your behavior that I must consider in my evaluation of your intentions. It's not a reflection of my prejudice, but of yours, reflected in your behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
Carry on denying it if you so desire, but do some searches outside of C-D if you want to see where I got these ideas. Haven't you ever heard of this being a conspiracy theory, along with the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and "Illuminati?" I mean really, these have all be KNOWN conspiracy theories & anti-Semitic fuel for like decades. Here: Let me google that for you
This has now become a mantra. But listen up for a second if you can .... if a large group of Jews are destroying the economic prosperity of the world (not just the United States), and that is indeed the case of the Rothschilds and their affiliates ... and of course there are a great number of non-Jews who are also in that mix ... it is not anti-Semitic to highlight those facts. And it is not a condemnation of ALL Jews. Those particular Jews are using this anti-Semitism as a tactic ... a ploy ... a shield against valid, legitimate criticism and condemnation of THEIR behavior. The unfortunate aspect of this is that so many innocent Jews still insist on running cover for their activities because of this ingrained mentality that all Jews must defend all other Jews no matter what, because of this us versus them mentality. By doing so, it is this behavior that leads others to believe that ALL Jews ARE COMPLICIT, because your actions suggest it. If you defend it, you own it. If the majority of Jews insist on behaving that way, how can the rest of us distinguish you from Evelyn Rothschild?
I don't know how to be more plain spoken, other than to say that among the many religions, Judaism is unique in that being a Jew is a racial bloodline thing, rather than a religious belief thing. This comes from Jews and the religious authorities of Judaism .... one must be born of a Jewish mother to be a Jew. One can believe in Judaism, and faithfully practice and observe all Judaic religious obligations, but still never be a Jew. That's not the case with Christians or Muslims or Hindus and the rest .... just Jews. This alone separates Jews from everyone else on earth from a racial, bloodline perspective. The racism is right there at face value, and at the heart of the Jewish Belief System.
I even tried to do some research myself, and all I can come up with is stuff about it being a debunked conspiracy theory.
Well then you would have to debunk history. This is not a conspiracy theory.
Like guyntexas said, you say you don't know anything, then within minutes you contradict yourself by saying its bunk. How can you come to the conclusion that you have come to if you say yourself, you don't know anything about the family?
You say that the youtube video doesn't have its facts straight? Well then provide information to the contrary.
Well then you would have to debunk history. This is not a conspiracy theory.
Like guyntexas said, you say you don't know anything, then within minutes you contradict yourself by saying its bunk. How can you come to the conclusion that you have come to if you say yourself, you don't know anything about the family?
You say that the youtube video doesn't have its facts straight? Well then provide information to the contrary.
I said I know nothing about the FAMILY or the history behind their money & power... I do know about the THEORY, as this topic keeps coming up despite it being shrugged off by most experts.
Anyway, carry on. I won't stop you from discussing or believing whatever you like, but it doesn't interest me enough to bother doing any deep research to "prove" my comments. They were merely personal observations, nothing more nothing less. (actually, I only posted my original comment to agree with another poster - so why aren't you debating them instead?)
My only assertion has been that the debate often ends with anti-Semitism, and I already provided a LMGTFY link so you can see it for yourself. Can you contradict that ONE definitive statement I made, instead of continuing to try and convince me the theory is true? I don't know if it's true or not, and have said that already... so you really don't need to convince me there, since I have neither confirmed nor denied such a thing. Maybe you are right, who knows? Again, that was not my point.
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I personally cannot look at the current Pope without thinking "Devil" ... just one look at the eyes of that guy stands the hair on my neck. But there are loads of wonderful Christian people whom I have had much interactions, so I don't hold the pope against them. 
