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Most progressives want people to have the greatest opportunity to achieve whatever it is they want, not for people to all have the exact same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore
That's not ironic, that's the bind of existing within a society of laws and social structures which attempt to orient laws towards enhancing the greater good. Having to pay taxes so that people can be ensured is a restriction, the crippling cost of healthcare is another restriction, and figuring out how to produce a system that produces equality of opportunity is the end goal. I don't support Obamacare, but you again follow a line of argument whereby any taxation whatsoever is tantamount to bondage, and it's inane.
Alternatively, this is the early 20th c. factory owner complaining against the restrictions against the use of indentured servants as a restriction of his freedoms. Is his right to not have his business practices regulated equal to the right of the servants not be basically used as slave labor? If we're going to follow a path of ridiculousness, please tell me the what kind of regulation is justifiable at all, and what business should NOT be allowed to do.
So then, you believe the way for "people to have the greatest opportunity to achieve whatever it is they want" is through regulation?
I am not arguing against all taxation. I am not arguing against equal opportunity. I come at this from the angle of a minimalist--a simple living advocate. I'm the kind of person who wants to exist via my own income, yet do it as a minimalist. So, I don't want your "good life" of a McMansion and a BMW. No rainbows. I want a 250 sq ft home and a $16,000 per year salary. I could easily do that with reasonable taxation and reasonable local and state governmental fees. However, I cannot with these grand progressive plans for the collective (I know you said you don't support obamacare, but those sorts of things). I'm required to increase my income to support... you. (not you personally; let's reword that as, "the collective")
Communism is their answer then. Let government run everything and make all the decisions.
Babbling this kind on nonsense is why the political right will continue to lose national elections. You need to come up with an intelligent response instead of nonsensical garbage.
So then, you believe the way for "people to have the greatest opportunity to achieve whatever it is they want" is through regulation?
I am not arguing against all taxation. I am not arguing against equal opportunity. I come at this from the angle of a minimalist--a simple living advocate. I'm the kind of person who wants to exist via my own income, yet do it as a minimalist. So, I don't want your "good life" of a McMansion and a BMW. No rainbows. I want a 250 sq ft home and a $16,000 per year salary. I could easily do that with reasonable taxation and reasonable local and state governmental fees. However, I cannot with these grand progressive plans for the collective (I know you said you don't support obamacare, but those sorts of things). I'm required to increase my income to support... you. (not you personally; let's reword that as, "the collective")
I don't want a McMansion or a BMW, and I think it's hilarious that you assume that. I have lived in poverty and worked my way through community college, into an Ivy League university. I couldn't have done it without the help of the government when my mother was a poor working single mother, or Pell Grants when I went to school. How much of that is expendable in your minimalist system so that a factory owner doesn't have to worry about regulation? How much attention should we pay to the increased pooling of wealth in the bank accounts of the few, who exploit their economic power and co-opt politicians into rigging the system in their favor? What kind of regulations of lobbying or campaign finance or anything else are justifiable in your minimalist system?
By this logic, completely abolish all laws, all government, return to a state of nature. Walk back the logic of your argument here in a consideration of what it means to live in a society. Also recognize that given the highly unequal nature of our society, removing government would not resolve the extent to which the powerful limit the freedom of the weak, it would exacerbate it.
No, we protect individual liberty and the only level of regulations that should exist are those that regulate on aspects that are known to directly infringe on the liberties of others.
If 'progressives' were really what they like to believe they are, they would seek to abolish marriage of any kind as an archaic ritual denoting past enslavement of one gender and the now-unnecessary protection of children's paternity under old community standards.
This is exactly right. I am not a progressive, but I actually support exactly what you say here. I do not think the state should have any construct called "marriage." If two people want to have a legal contract drawn up between them, sharing their assets and such, fine. But "marriage" is a religious ceremony that has no relevance outside an archaic set of traditions.
But you'll never hear a progressive suggest this now. Of course, back in the day, they fought against the very idea of marriage in any form. That was back in the days of "free love." But, that's out of style now. I would have been more apt to agree with them back then.
Babbling this kind on nonsense is why the political right will continue to lose national elections. You need to come up with an intelligent response instead of nonsensical garbage.
Fine, give me your answer to how progressives can get their changes into society and business.
I don't want a McMansion or a BMW, and I think it's hilarious that you assume that. I have lived in poverty and worked my way through community college, into an Ivy League university. I couldn't have done it without the help of the government when my mother was a poor working single mother, or Pell Grants when I went to school. How much of that is expendable in your minimalist system so that a factory owner doesn't have to worry about regulation? How much attention should we pay to the increased pooling of wealth in the bank accounts of the few, who exploit their economic power and co-opt politicians into rigging the system in their favor? What kind of regulations of lobbying or campaign finance or anything else are justifiable in your minimalist system?
I'm not talking about a minimalist system. I'm talking about a minimalist who can exist within the bigger system. If that is not possible, then the bigger system is flawed.
I don't want a McMansion or a BMW, and I think it's hilarious that you assume that. I have lived in poverty and worked my way through community college, into an Ivy League university. I couldn't have done it without the help of the government when my mother was a poor working single mother, or Pell Grants when I went to school. How much of that is expendable in your minimalist system so that a factory owner doesn't have to worry about regulation? How much attention should we pay to the increased pooling of wealth in the bank accounts of the few, who exploit their economic power and co-opt politicians into rigging the system in their favor? What kind of regulations of lobbying or campaign finance or anything else are justifiable in your minimalist system?
You voted the politicans into office that allowed it to happen.
And you keep sending them back every 2/4 years.
You can't send corrupt politicians to DC expecting them to end the corruption that keeps them in power
but you do.
The politicians allow the lobbyists to write the bills. You send the politicians to DC. Who is to blame again ?
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