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Old 11-24-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,607,531 times
Reputation: 1552

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Social issues come first. You can't be a legitimate "fiscal conservative" or "small government conservative" while ignoring social issues.

A moral society of strong marriages, extended families, and flourishing churches needs a much smaller safety net than an amoral society of self-directed individuals pursuing their "dreams" or private interests. That's how our grandparents survived the Great Depression. This generation wouldn't last a month.

Spending is out of control because our society is crumbling. Regulations are out of control because people can't be trusted. The growth of government is out of control because Americans no longer promote the common good in their own communities. Etc.

All politics is morality, and for most people, morality is derived from religious faith or at least strengthened by it. America's government problem is at heart a religious problem.

In the end, government either supports family, faith and community or it works against it. A pretended "neutrality" always ends in hostility. Government always has been and always will be involved in the social issues. The only question is: on whose side?

 
Old 11-24-2012, 01:46 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,303,308 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Social issues come first. You can't be a legitimate "fiscal conservative" or "small government conservative" while ignoring social issues.

A moral society of strong marriages, extended families, and flourishing churches needs a much smaller safety net than an amoral society of self-directed individuals pursuing their "dreams" or private interests. That's how our grandparents survived the Great Depression. This generation wouldn't last a month.
Maybe you should have watched Ken Burns' "Dust Bowl" last week. You had people from the most Conservative parts of the country in Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma literally begging the government to help them out.

For a lot of people a WPA job was the difference between survival and starvation.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 01:50 PM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,071,820 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Social issues come first. You can't be a legitimate "fiscal conservative" or "small government conservative" while ignoring social issues.

A moral society of strong marriages, extended families, and flourishing churches needs a much smaller safety net than an amoral society of self-directed individuals pursuing their "dreams" or private interests. That's how our grandparents survived the Great Depression. This generation wouldn't last a month.

Spending is out of control because our society is crumbling. Regulations are out of control because people can't be trusted. The growth of government is out of control because Americans no longer promote the common good in their own communities. Etc.

All politics is morality, and for most people, morality is derived from religious faith or at least strengthened by it. America's government problem is at heart a religious problem.

In the end, government either supports family, faith and community or it works against it. A pretended "neutrality" always ends in hostility. Government always has been and always will be involved in the social issues. The only question is: on whose side?
That is why Progressive attempt to destroy our great social instutions, bit by bit, witness "same-sex marriage" attempts, and a whole host of other subversion.

Progressivism is to a nation, and a cancer tumor is to a lung.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 01:52 PM
 
385 posts, read 358,157 times
Reputation: 218
I'd agree that the problems we face are caused mostly by lack of morals. Religion itself is irrelevant, you can be a moral and ethical person while not believing in any god or higher power.

The main problem facing the country is people believe they can take what others produce by force and spend it on themselves. Along with believing they can get free lunches. (bailouts/excessive welfare/ ect)
 
Old 11-24-2012, 02:01 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,054,795 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
A moral society of strong marriages, extended families, and flourishing churches needs a much smaller safety net than an amoral society of self-directed individuals pursuing their "dreams" or private interests. That's how our grandparents survived the Great Depression.
You know you can go to the poorest areas of the country, rural and urban and for every liquor store there's at least 2 churches where every sunday folks in their Sunday best just keep walking past the poor and out of the area as fast as they can.

As for the Great Depression, I wish you had put your book of fables down long enough to have watched Ken Burn's the Dust Bowl. The Church didn't get folks through it because the minister's family died of the dust just like everybody else or got the hell out of dodge when he had a chance. No Western in was that damn blasted guvment(sic) that stepped in, gave people jobs, paid them for their starving cattle, retaught them how to farm so that they could save the top soil and fed them until the dust died down. God did not provide!
 
Old 11-24-2012, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
I agree that subsidizing bastards is a bad idea. I do not believe encouraging homosexual monogomy is a bad idea. Not sure why encouraging monogamy among heterosexuals is good but encouraging monogamy among homosexuals is bad.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,982 posts, read 10,463,986 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16trillionandcounting View Post
Religion itself is irrelevant, you can be a moral and ethical person while not believing in any god or higher power.
Good luck getting WP to agree with that.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,080,363 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Social issues come first. You can't be a legitimate "fiscal conservative" or "small government conservative" while ignoring social issues.
And this is why the Republicans are the new Whigs. Because some people actually believe it.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 04:57 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,607,531 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Maybe you should have watched Ken Burns' "Dust Bowl" last week. You had people from the most Conservative parts of the country in Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma literally begging the government to help them out.

For a lot of people a WPA job was the difference between survival and starvation.
Maybe you should show me where I said that government has no legitimate role in providing a safety net.
 
Old 11-24-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,607,531 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
You know you can go to the poorest areas of the country, rural and urban and for every liquor store there's at least 2 churches where every sunday folks in their Sunday best just keep walking past the poor and out of the area as fast as they can.

As for the Great Depression, I wish you had put your book of fables down long enough to have watched Ken Burn's the Dust Bowl. The Church didn't get folks through it because the minister's family died of the dust just like everybody else or got the hell out of dodge when he had a chance. No Western in was that damn blasted guvment(sic) that stepped in, gave people jobs, paid them for their starving cattle, retaught them how to farm so that they could save the top soil and fed them until the dust died down. God did not provide!
Maybe you should talk to some people who actually lived through it. People of that era depended heavily on families, communities, and churches to get them through. Government couldn't possibly do it all and didn't do it all. God DID provide, and in some cases, He provided through government - but your post is a threadjack and misses the point of the OP entirely.
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