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Old 12-04-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,209,269 times
Reputation: 1378

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Merton View Post
I think maybe it is a bad idea to push the idea that taxes should be "fair," since that is an entirely subjective notion largely dependent on whether you are the one being taxed or not. The idea is to pluck the goose with a minimum of noise (maybe someone knows where that metaphor comes from -- to me it just came from the depths).

Therefore taxes should be indirect, hidden, and require a minimum of effort to work out. VATs and Corporate Earnings Taxes and perhaps asset/income taxes on the seriously wealthy (who can hire people to handle the hassle).

I live in Asia but am a U.S. citizen, with a pretty good income, and I don't mind paying income taxes, but I do mind the horrible hours I have to spend on them every year (try finding an accountant in Vietnam who understand U.S. tax law). I think, however, that income taxes are unwise. Consumption should be taxed, not the fruits of work and savings. It is not an issue of fairness, but of how you want to structure things to motivate behavior that is best for the country.
Nope, I vote for full disclosure on taxes.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,209,269 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Here we go again with that whole "only LUCKY people make it" mantra. There is NO such thing as luck. There are opportunities, that different people have, that are either taken advantage of or not. It's called life. Don't have the tools to succeed? Get them. You aren't in the proximity of opportunity? Move. Don't have financial backing? Get it. Don't have motivation....well, then you're a lazy bum that will use any excuse to sit on your rear and collect your entitlement check.

Liberals love their "luck" excuse. Gives them a built-in reason for their failures in life.
With 9 out of 10 failing luck and being in the right place at the right time is a big part of success (along with EVERYTHING ELSE I listed) . Someone licing in ghettoland will be less likely to be in the right place at the right time.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,170 posts, read 44,953,235 times
Reputation: 13742
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
And as such that benefit cap acts as a means test on benefits.
No. Benefits are capped because contributions are capped.
Quote:
I don't like that my wife's SS benefits are taxed at 85% but that there is the law.
Retirees receiving SS should be taxed just as those withdrawing funds from their 401k's/IRAs are taxed.

Quote:
We have a difference, your side you're arguing how you think thing should be and I'm living with how thing are and the public policy reasons for that.
Why on earth does anyone think it's a good idea or beneficial to anyone to incentivize a 3 times higher birth rate among the welfare-dependent?

Quote:
FYI, you 70 employees must run your business pretty good, seems you let them go all day yesterday and today.
No, I serve a managing/supervisory role plus attend to normal business maintenance drudgery, much of which is not restricted to the hours of 9 to 5.

I'm winding down my business, pink slipping everyone, and selling off any assets. NO WAY am I going to be a tax slave to our society's downward spiral anymore (see the welfare-dependent birth rate, above). Liberals can do that; put their money where their mouths are.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:03 AM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,075,697 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
"success" is a complicated formula. LUCK, education, intelligence, "business sense", experience, financial backing, personal support and motivation, LUCK, location, not only opportunity, but proximity to those opportunities, demand for services or products, proper pricing, ability to identify and compete with competition, etc. Most "ingredients" need to be present in the right proportion. Did I mention luck? Most ppl don't have the tools to succeed.


9 out of 10 first time start ups fail within 5 years, most in first year.
Yes, and of course, 90% or more of the time, you make your own luck. Welcome to adulthood.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,851,841 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Rossi View Post
Yes, and of course, 90% or more of the time, you make your own luck. Welcome to adulthood.
Use self as an example, then illustrate your point. Because I cannot. To me, it was a combination of luck, work and opportunity. I NEVER assumed or portrayed self to be more hard working than others because I know that ain't true.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,209,269 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. Benefits are capped because contributions are capped. Retirees receiving SS should be taxed just as those withdrawing funds from their 401k's/IRAs are taxed.

Why on earth does anyone think it's a good idea or beneficial to anyone to incentivize a 3 times higher birth rate among the welfare-dependent?

No, I serve a managing/supervisory role plus attend to normal business maintenance drudgery, much of which is not restricted to the hours of 9 to 5.

I'm winding down my business, pink slipping everyone, and selling off any assets. NO WAY am I going to be a tax slave to our society's downward spiral anymore (see the welfare-dependent birth rate, above). Liberals can do that; put their money where their mouths are.
Sounds like sore loser man. FYI, everyone is playing by the same rules, you're not at a competitive disadvantage. Some shrink in the face of a challenge, you I guess, and some analyze the situation and forge ahead. I worked thru the worst of raygun's war on the middle class, near 10% unemployed as far as the eye could see, and I was able to triple the size of my take. As friends, family and fellow cohorts struggled I moved ahead. What's your excuse?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
335 posts, read 335,277 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Nope, I vote for full disclosure on taxes.
Nice, to the point, and glib.

The objective is to raise money to operate the government and provide its services. Having huge bureaucracies to achieve this is wasteful. Making people spend hours and lots of money on accountants is wasteful.

I suppose by "full disclosure" you mean the fact of the tax should be noticed, and, remembering Reagan, painful. I assure you, all taxes achieve that. My point is that some taxes are less burdensome and more efficient and achieve their objective without harming economic activity as much.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,209,269 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Rossi View Post
Yes, and of course, 90% or more of the time, you make your own luck. Welcome to adulthood.
Dude, success is a complex formula, needing many ingredients. Take one or two away and the chances for success diminish. If someone with missing ingredients succeeds it is probable luck and won't be replicated many times. Someone with a 70 IQ and no cash isn't likely to succeed without a lot of luck.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,170 posts, read 44,953,235 times
Reputation: 13742
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Sounds like sore loser man. FYI, everyone is playing by the same rules, you're not at a competitive disadvantage.
Indeed, I am. I pay an effective federal income tax rate of over 31%. I would like to be treated equally and pay the 6.01% effective federal income tax rate that the middle class (top 25-50%) pays. THEY only have to work about three weeks each year for free to support the federal government. I have to work nearly 4 months for free to do the same.
Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

I REFUSE to be a tax slave. That is my right.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:15 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,796,709 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
The reason the top 5% pay 40% of income taxes is because the top 5% earn 20% of all the income.
Wouldn't this be a reason for them to pay 20% of all the income tax? Obviously, that is what would be fair, correct?
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