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Old 12-02-2012, 10:24 AM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,014,226 times
Reputation: 5455

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This is not good news.

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) - It’s an issue that has plagued states along the Mississippi River for months and has now landed squarely on the desk of President Obama: how to prevent the imminent shutdown of commercial traffic along the nation’s largest waterway.
A nationwide drought, the worst to hit the U.S. in decades, has lowered water levels along the river, threatening barge traffic.
White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the President raised the issue with Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack at Wednesday’s cabinet meeting, directing his administration to take “every step to mitigate” the situation. Carney added that there are a number of “complex” legal and technical steps which can be pursued, saying the Army Corps of Engineers has taken “proactive” measures.
The biggest obstacle is jagged rocks jutting up from the bottom of the Mississippi which make it impossible for barges to move.
“The Corps needs to get in there and literally blow them up to get them out of the way or we will be either extremely limited or completely shut down some time between December 15 and December 30,” Senior Vice President of Regional Advocacy for the American Waterways Operators Lynn Muench said. “If we do lose the river between mid-December and January, the jobs that are at risk in Missouri are almost 3,000 jobs.”
Muench said she’s reached out to President Obama and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, mirroring an effort Thursday by Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster.
“If commercial navigation is significantly impaired or eliminated because of navigation hazards, there will be catastrophic consequences to the economy of the nation’s heartland, including Missouri, which will reverberate throughout the country,” Koster wrote in a letter to Mr. Obama.


Possible Mississippi River Shutdown Threatens Thousands of Jobs « CBS St. Louis
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,719,194 times
Reputation: 9829
Damn Obama doesn't even want to end the drought. He's just looking to expand the role of government by having the Corps of Engineers get involved. Another step on the complete government takeover of our lives.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:51 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,201,832 times
Reputation: 4801
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Damn Obama doesn't even want to end the drought.
I know dude, I heard he cancelled the Indian rain dances that the white house usually sponsors, despite all the tools at his disposal to end the drought he'd everything he can to dictate weather patterns so the drought continues. He also stomps on kittens.

Thankfully my bucket list item #47 "walk from Louisiana to Mississippi without a bridge" might finally get crossed off soon, so I can focus on #18 "have a parking lot fistfight with a midget" instead for 2013.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:03 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 2,300,978 times
Reputation: 960
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Damn Obama doesn't even want to end the drought. He's just looking to expand the role of government by having the Corps of Engineers get involved. Another step on the complete government takeover of our lives.

That is beyond stupid.
I live in New Orleans and the Army Corps of Engineers have been responsible for keeping the Mississippi navigable for river traffic (you know...part of private industry and the economy).

Let the river become unnavigable...and watch a large segment of the agricultural economy collapse.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:03 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,215,209 times
Reputation: 18824
I just crossed the Mississippi at Memphis a few days ago. It really did look pretty bad.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,173,997 times
Reputation: 21743
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
This is not good news.

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) - It’s an issue that has plagued states along the Mississippi River for months and has now landed squarely on the desk of President Obama: how to prevent the imminent shutdown of commercial traffic along the nation’s largest waterway.

A nationwide drought, the worst to hit the U.S. in decades, has lowered water levels along the river, threatening barge traffic.....
There's no drought.

Okay, by modern standards -- Global Warming Standards -- it might be, but in terms of the original definitions of drought, this is just the pre-drought period.

The actual drought won't actually happen for another 16 months, and when it does, you'll get to play with that for 9 freaking years.

That will be devastating to your economy. Not only will you be paying more for food prices, but you were all stupid enough to let them push you into Ethanol, and so it will drive up gasoline prices as well --- and then with traffic hampered on the Mississippi, that will wreck havoc on the prices of all things, especially food and gasoline.

Your gasoline is transported up the Mississippi on barges. There are tank farms everywhere. Look on GoogleEarth. If you look on the Ohio River at Cincinnati just to the west (but before you get to the airport) BP has a tank farm and then on the Ohio side Royal Dutch Shell has a tank farm (but an independent company operates it) and then Marathon also has tank farms which supplies independent gasoline dealers and also ExxonMobil.

Gasoline goes by river barge, then from tank farm by truck to the gas stations.

Just to give you an idea of what's involved, one barge -- which is actually 15 barges arranged in a 3x5 format and pushed by a tugboat --- has the same carrying capacity of 870 tanker trucks.

A $1/gallon jump in gasoline price would not be out of the question --

1] look at the difference in transport costs price per gallon
2] you don't have enough trucks -- shortage results in temporary increase in transport costs
3] because you don't have enough trucks there are rolling shortages (no pun intended) where some cities/areas will run out of gasoline --- rationing or limitations/restrictions on purchases may be needed.

Oh, yeah, ethanol. Ethanol is transported by barge and truck to refineries where it is blended by gasoline, so that would drive up the price of ethanol as well.

And the truck shortage...that will affect the prices of all bulk liquids --- that means health care costs go up because of bulk oxygen, nitrogen etc etc transported in tanker trucks.

It would probably affect everything -- I know independent drivers will take the highest paid runs, so they'll dump trailers to drag tankers (at least those who are HAZMAT qualified for tankers) and that will cause a shortage of truck drivers hauling dry goods -- which will cause prices to rise.

Good luck with that.

Barging....

Mircea
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,341,179 times
Reputation: 20828
I really wouldn't push any panic buttons.

Barge systems (inland waterways) don't handle time-sensitive or high-valuue freight. What there is is of low value, and stockpiles, which can be moved by rail or other modes, are usually available somewhere. Prices might move a little, but it's not a perfect world.

And people seem to have already forgotten the upper Mississippi flooding of 1994, which disrupted several major east-west rail atreries.

We'll survive.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,341,179 times
Reputation: 20828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prytania View Post
That is beyond stupid.
I live in New Orleans and the Army Corps of Engineers have been responsible for keeping the Mississippi navigable for river traffic (you know...part of private industry and the economy).

Let the river become unnavigable...and watch a large segment of the agricultural economy collapse.
And let's not forget the $1 billion (in pre-1963 dollars; perhaps $8 billion today) we "invested" to make a redundant "inland port" out of Tulsa.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:52 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,215,209 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
There's no drought.

Okay, by modern standards -- Global Warming Standards -- it might be, but in terms of the original definitions of drought, this is just the pre-drought period.

The actual drought won't actually happen for another 16 months, and when it does, you'll get to play with that for 9 freaking years.

That will be devastating to your economy. Not only will you be paying more for food prices, but you were all stupid enough to let them push you into Ethanol, and so it will drive up gasoline prices as well --- and then with traffic hampered on the Mississippi, that will wreck havoc on the prices of all things, especially food and gasoline.

Your gasoline is transported up the Mississippi on barges. There are tank farms everywhere. Look on GoogleEarth. If you look on the Ohio River at Cincinnati just to the west (but before you get to the airport) BP has a tank farm and then on the Ohio side Royal Dutch Shell has a tank farm (but an independent company operates it) and then Marathon also has tank farms which supplies independent gasoline dealers and also ExxonMobil.

Gasoline goes by river barge, then from tank farm by truck to the gas stations.

Just to give you an idea of what's involved, one barge -- which is actually 15 barges arranged in a 3x5 format and pushed by a tugboat --- has the same carrying capacity of 870 tanker trucks.

A $1/gallon jump in gasoline price would not be out of the question --

1] look at the difference in transport costs price per gallon
2] you don't have enough trucks -- shortage results in temporary increase in transport costs
3] because you don't have enough trucks there are rolling shortages (no pun intended) where some cities/areas will run out of gasoline --- rationing or limitations/restrictions on purchases may be needed.

Oh, yeah, ethanol. Ethanol is transported by barge and truck to refineries where it is blended by gasoline, so that would drive up the price of ethanol as well.

And the truck shortage...that will affect the prices of all bulk liquids --- that means health care costs go up because of bulk oxygen, nitrogen etc etc transported in tanker trucks.

It would probably affect everything -- I know independent drivers will take the highest paid runs, so they'll dump trailers to drag tankers (at least those who are HAZMAT qualified for tankers) and that will cause a shortage of truck drivers hauling dry goods -- which will cause prices to rise.

Good luck with that.

Barging....

Mircea
Might be my cue to go back into the transportation industry.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,825,871 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
This is not good news.

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) - It’s an issue that has plagued states along the Mississippi River for months and has now landed squarely on the desk of President Obama: how to prevent the imminent shutdown of commercial traffic along the nation’s largest waterway.
A nationwide drought, the worst to hit the U.S. in decades, has lowered water levels along the river, threatening barge traffic.
White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the President raised the issue with Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack at Wednesday’s cabinet meeting, directing his administration to take “every step to mitigate” the situation. Carney added that there are a number of “complex” legal and technical steps which can be pursued, saying the Army Corps of Engineers has taken “proactive” measures.
The biggest obstacle is jagged rocks jutting up from the bottom of the Mississippi which make it impossible for barges to move.
“The Corps needs to get in there and literally blow them up to get them out of the way or we will be either extremely limited or completely shut down some time between December 15 and December 30,” Senior Vice President of Regional Advocacy for the American Waterways Operators Lynn Muench said. “If we do lose the river between mid-December and January, the jobs that are at risk in Missouri are almost 3,000 jobs.”
Muench said she’s reached out to President Obama and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, mirroring an effort Thursday by Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster.
“If commercial navigation is significantly impaired or eliminated because of navigation hazards, there will be catastrophic consequences to the economy of the nation’s heartland, including Missouri, which will reverberate throughout the country,” Koster wrote in a letter to Mr. Obama.


Possible Mississippi River Shutdown Threatens Thousands of Jobs « CBS St. Louis
Yep. No Global warming folks. Nothing to see. Go on home and burn those fossil fuels!
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