Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Social liberals allow each individual the freedom to make their own life choices and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences, as applicable.
"Make your own choices and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences" is a Conservative talking point, not liberal.
It is true social liberals support gay rights etc, but most of their efforts go toward trying resolve bigger social issues. Social Security, Medicaid, ACA etc are programs created by social liberals in an attempt to resolve social problems. Let me list few social issues for you:
- Poverty
- Teen pregnancies
- Drug use
- Health care
- Crime
- Education
- Equality (based on gender, race, sexual orientation etc)
- Abortion
- Gay issues
Practically all Congress persons who voted YES, for ACA would identify as a social liberals. The New Deal is a very typical program created by social liberals. If you want to add another label on top of it, go right ahead, but it won't remove the fact that they were social liberals.
If you simply support gay rights, and ignore other social issues, then why not call yourself for what you really are: a pro-homosexual conservative. Don't call yourself a social liberal if you support 5% of what they support and reject 95%.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-25-2014 at 07:05 AM..
This is a post that is completely off topic now isn't it. This thread is not about me. The discussion is can libertarians be liberals. Ii answered that question.
With the following bit of reality.
Most self identified libertarians are over 30yr old white dudes. And over 30yr old white dudes identify with and vote for conservatives.
So in reality libertarians are usually just white dudes who are conservatives and who vote for conservative candidates in actual elections.
This is reality.
True libertarians vote for trueconservative candidates that uphold and adhere to the US Constitution. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing many of those type of candidates in the Republican party. Oh, they had Ron Paul and they chose to throw him under the bus, because it went against their agenda. I sure as hell am not seeing any candidates in the Democrat party that would uphold and adhere to the US Constitution. If you're trying to lump idiots like Bachmann and Palin as libertarians, you would be wrong, because true libertarians want nothing to do with those people. I sure as hell don't! They're attempting to hijack the ideology, as they did with the Tea Party.
True libertarians vote for trueconservative candidates that uphold and adhere to the US Constitution. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing many of those type of candidates in the Republican party. Oh, they had Ron Paul and they chose to throw him under the bus, because it went against their agenda. I sure as hell am not seeing any candidates in the Democrat party that would uphold and adhere to the US Constitution. If you're trying to lump idiots like Bachmann and Palin as libertarians, you would be wrong, because true libertarians want nothing to do with those people. I sure as hell don't! They're attempting to hijack the ideology, as they did with the Tea Party.
The only part of your post that was relevant to the thread and what I have written in this thread was the reality that libertarians vote for conservatives which is my point.
The rest of your post is just blah, blah, blah irrelevant nonsense.
Liberalism: a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual
No statism, or excessive government control.
You are describing statists and redistributionists. Such are not liberals, by any stretch of the imagination.
You do not have the faintest clue what you are talking about. Are you suggesting social liberals OPPOSE welfare and ACA?
Redistributionists in US can be found in both camps, liberal and conservative. Social liberals distribute the money to social welfare programs, and others to corporate welfare programs.
You say this is the liberal view on social issues/programs: "Make your own choices and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences".
OK, now tell me what the opposing conservative view looks like.
The only part of your post that was relevant to the thread and what I have written in this thread was the reality that libertarians vote for conservatives which is my point.
The rest of your post is just blah, blah, blah irrelevant nonsense.
Annnnnnd....of course your usual deflection. Straight from the progressive playbook.... Dismiss, deflect, call names when someone's beliefs or opinions differ from yours! But hey don't let me stop you from your bigotry of being in the middle of yet one of your many "all conservatives are bad" rant! You seem to think that libertarians and republicans are the same. They aren't. Me thinks you would be better served doing the research, instead of making ASSumptions about what you think that all conservatives are and think. Again... Google is your friend.
Redistributionists in US can be found in both camps, liberal and conservative. Social liberals distribute the money to social welfare programs, and others to corporate welfare programs.
What corporate welfare? Cite specifically what welfare payments/services/benefits corporations are getting.
What corporate welfare? Cite specifically what welfare payments/services/benefits corporations are getting.
Subsidies and bailouts for example. If you were not aware they exist, then I suggest you study up a little. CATO Institute has a lot to say about it, so maybe that would be a good place to start.
You did not answer my question: If "Make your own choices and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences" is a liberal view, then can you tell me what the opposing conservative view looks like? Thank you in advance.
Who gets subsidies, and in which form are those conveyed?
Bailouts? Obama decided to bail out Wall Street. How was that a conservative decision?
Quote:
"For two weeks, I was on the phone every day with [Treasury] Secretary Paulson and the congressional leadersmaking sure that the principles that have ultimately been adopted were incorporated in the bill," Obama said."
...giving nearly $1 Trillion of taxpayer money to the banksters while millions of main street Americans lost their homes and were financially devastated.
Funny how clicking on the link to my post reveals I did not say my Federal income tax rate was 25%. I said my total effective tax rate is 25-30%. In fact, I specifically said Federaly, Payroll, and State.. yet you alter what is the quotes to fit your agenda. Case in point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
I've never seen anyone post that the rich do not pay taxes. We just know that the 0.1% pay less effective tax than their secretaries, which is true. Mitt Romney's effective tax rate was 14%. My effective tax rate is between 25 and 30% in a given year. Explain to me what is fair about that.
Fair would be Mitt Romney pays 25% effective tax and I pay 25% effective tax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
You do realize that the AMT helps us understand that you're blatantly lying about youreffective federal income tax rate, right?
Now if you are going to blatantly alter someone's posts to make it look like you are "winning" an argument, you have no place in a serious discussion. Furthermore, I will report you if you alter my quotes from previous posts again when quoting me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Let's take a look, shall we?
Total Effective Federal Tax Rates by Income Group:
" *Individual income tax rates for the lowest and second lowest quintiles are negative and are netted against the payroll tax rate. A quintile is one fifth of the population. Calculations assume that employees also pay the employer portion of payroll taxes in the form of reduced wages. The breaks are (in 2013 dollars): 20% $24,191; 40% $47,261; 60% $79,521; 80% $134,266; 90% $180,482; 95% $261,471; 99% $615,048; 99.9% $3,170,865."
Total Effective Local, State, and Federal Tax Rates by Income Group:
Data Source: Tax Policy Center and Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy
Top 1%: 43%
Middle Quintile: 25%
Lowest Quintile: 13%
(Note to moderators: all images appearing in this post have been linked via HTML text command in a legally permissible manner per the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Perfect 10 v. Amazon ruling, and as such do not constitute copyright violation.)
Did I talk about average? I specifically mentioned Warren Buffet and Mitt Romney.
“The question is what is fair when you have to raise multi-trillions to fund the United States of America,” said Buffett. ”[Raising taxes] will not change my behavior. I have paid all different kinds of rates and I’ve always been interested in making money. I believe this should be a defining issue. Debbie works just as hard as I do and she pays twice the rate I do.”
Quote:
“I don’t pay hardly any payroll taxes,” Buffett said. “Gov. Romney hardly pays any payroll taxes, Newt Gingrich hardly pays any payroll taxes. Debbie pays lots of payroll taxes.”
Mitt Romney made $13.7 million last year and paid $1.94 million in federal income taxes, giving him an effective tax rate of 14.1%, his campaign said Friday.
Quote:
The reason Romney's rate is so low -- despite having one of the highest incomes in the country -- is because his income was derived almost entirely from capital gains and dividends from his extensive portfolio of investments. And that form of investment income is typically taxed at just 15%, well below the 35% top tax rate for high earners.
And once again, the cap on payroll taxes makes people like Romney and Buffet pay less of a total effective tax rate than myself and "Debbie."
Now, please stop derailing this thread with your reptitive nonsense.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Straight from the progressive playbook.... Dismiss, deflect, call names when someone's beliefs or opinions differ from yours! But hey don't let me stop you from your bigotry of being in the middle of yet one of your many "all conservatives are bad" rant! You seem to think that libertarians and republicans are the same. They aren't. Me thinks you would be better served doing the research, instead of making ASSumptions about what you think that all conservatives are and think. Again... Google is your friend.
