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Guess what, without "HEALTH" businesses will go to hell! You need HEALTHY employees to have your businesses thrive, and not sick, unhappy people working for you. Eventually THAT will lead to a riot, that "businesses" will swallow the costs for! I cannot wait for the day when Americans wake up and see how they are "really" treated by "businesses" compared to the rest of the world. Also, logic tells me that if one has thousands of dollars in medical bills, forcing one to declare bankruptcy, one won't be helping "businesses" make much profits!!!!!!!!!!!!! (DUH) Money is made out of paper, and not chewing gum...they can only stretch so far.
"Businesses & their selfishness=greed" IS what has ruined this country. How many companies REALLY care about their employees??????? you go count now.
"Businesses & their selfishness=greed" IS what has ruined this country's politics too, and on top of that the people here are either to stupid, to fat, to obsessed with their boobs, or Honey BooBoo or the Kardashians, OR to preoccupied in keeping up with the Jonse's to wake up and demand what is theirs fairly for the work they put in. "Let me buy the biggest SUV, so I can fit my 400lbs A**, and the hell with the country, and everyone else living here, and let me waste as much gasoline as I can!!!" IS the overall mentality. I don't see any culture/art/COMMON SENSE being promoted here at the same scale as a football game, so there is really no wonder the health insurance is private and ripps people off of money monthly and GET AWAY with it. What's worst is that the people named above also think that only illegals are without insurance which is also not true. They also think that ALL of their tax money is going on the poor, which is also FALSE....60% of ALL taxes go to the military. Not poor people.
At this point it doesn't matter who changes what...the president (any president) needs to grow some balls and put his foot down, and stop the GREEDY! Once we stop the GREEDY, and all these lobbyists lobbying for detrimental things, we can have some hope that the Average American will see some respect for all the work they put in to make one person rich. Until then, there is no hope.
I hope you're not taking my words out of context, when I spoke of the "need" (business needs) to consider the effect of change on business I mean to point out the fact that business rules, not us. Your post is one that I agree one hundred per cent with, we'll never fix our problems in America until we begin to rule .
You know, it'd probably help if you would read the health care laws of other countries and understood how their systems work, instead of just guessing.
Medically...
Mircea
Thanks for attributing all those "Myth" statements to me. But I was simply quoting another medical source. Frankly I aint that smart (obviously, you say).
But what you haven't shown us is how many Europeans or any other nation that want to turn their system into ours. Imitation is the greatest flattery of all, and there is not a single other nation anywhere on earth that desires to be like ours. Appropriateness criteria may entail clinical criteria that a patient has to meet before a given treatment is deemed appropriate and therefore funded."
If you'd read some of my previous posts I also mentioned a need in the United States to do EXACTLY what the European countries are doing by rationing care:
Yes, we need to set some criteria. That's not my idea either. It came from an extremely interesting article written by the President of Dallas County Medical Society (himself a physician) who, this fall says the overriding problem facing American healthcare system is it's inability to deal objectively with rationing our limited healthcare resources. He called it "the dreaded 'R' word." We dont have enough resources to handle everything and the rationing system in place right now is--- MONEY. But the question is whether that is the fairest and most sensible solution, or the best for the majority of people in the nation.
If you think healthcare in the U.S. is great, then obviously you do, despite the number of Americans going bankrupt every year due to medical bills.
I'll also see if I can find the book, written by a physician 20 or more years ago---given to me by another physician, which shows the injury done to the healthcare of America by PROFIT. Your idea is to make it even worse. Do you own stock in for profit hospitals? In other areas of healthcare? Because that is the only way profit in healthcare makes sense.
More posts to follow.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-29-2012 at 05:01 AM..
Reason: Edited for copyright
A further point about how medical education and research is funded in Canada.
All of the hard science courses, at our Universities, have tax payer subsidized funding, so that a person attending a Canadian University, who is a Canadian citizen, pays only a portion of the actual cost of their education. In addition, medical research is supported by Government grants, and new techniques and equipment, that have been developed by a Canadian University, are frequently spun off, as commercial enterprises, with the University receiving a share of the new corporation's profits.
The University of Toronto has a specific department, that does just that kind of corporate start up.
One example of a business, that grew out of a University research program is Research In Motion, the maker of the Blackberry device. The two founders of the company were faculty members at Waterloo University, here in Ontario, and they started the company with the financial help of U of W. The city of Waterloo has benefited greatly from RIM, through public recreation centres, public parks, and child care centres, all built by RIM, from their profits. They also employ hundreds of people at their plants in Waterloo.
U of W also has a number of new buildings, that were entirely paid for by RIM, again out of it's profits.
On the subject of taxes, in Canada, for medical services. Yes we do pay higher taxes, for both income, and sales taxes..................BUT we also ALL benefit from it, when we need medical , and hospital services.
Canada is a more progessive country, than the USA. We instituted a national old age pension that covered all of out citizens years before the USA did. In 1941 we brought in a national unemployment insurance program, and workers compensation insurance. In 1960 we began the movement towards national socialized medicine. Maternity leave legislation here is miles head of the USA, in both scope and length of the allowed leave period. Gay marriage, abortion on demand, gays in the military, racial harmony, and a lack of religious bigotry, are all hallmarks of our forward thinking, that are still hot button issues, in the USA.
Our national motto sums it up very well.
Peace, Order, And Good Government.
And of course, we also add, we take care of everybody, as it is the right thing to do.
I live in Canada, and we have a national, universal health care system, that is paid for by ALL OF US, through our income and sales taxes. IT IS NOT FREE.
It covers all Canadian citizens and legal Immigrants to Canada.
Doctors do not bill patients in Canada. They submit their monthly invoices to the Provincial Ministry of Health, by electronic means, based on the agreement that the Medical Association and the Province have signed. Two months later, they get paid, by electronic means. No chasing bad debts, no private insurance forms to fill in, and no fear of not being paid.
As a result, our costs are lower than in the USA, and we get better service, as all our hospitals are owned by the public, not private, for profit corporations.
Taking the profit motive out of health care is the best thing we ever did, back in 1960.
By the way, our prescription drug costs are also considerably lower than in the USA, as our Government sets the prices that can be charged for any medication, that is sold in Canada. On average, the price paid by a Canadian for any prescribed drug, compared to the price for the same drug in the USA is one half to two thirds lower. Americans pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbidave After a great deal of observation and having decades of in hospital experience working in a country system, hospital chain (HCA) and very large regional system it was a no brainer that the VA won my vote as the best healthcare system anywhere! Yes I'm a Navy and Army veteran and it is likely my favortism is contrued as being influenced by being a veteran, but I would say no as it's all about being a patient! Being a patient is the benchmark along with non military employment.
It all starts with the facility ( Bay Pines comes to mind in Florida). This always expanding complex is just amazing. Every department is meticulously micro managed and let me emphasize in the cleanest of environments! You can walk anywhere and teams of orientation coordinators are giving newbees a professional overview. Sometimes there are lines at the pharmacy,and cashier but considering over 1 million veterans passing through these doors its a miracle anything can be managed ,organized or appointments kept on time (that really empressed me the flow!). The staff beginning with housekeeping all the way to administration are a fantastic team. The physicians are among the most skilled anywhere and and many of the best in local system (that I know personally) are migrating to VA (the best of the best!) I had 2 surgeries this year by great surgeons and cared for my RN's who really have their act together. The revovery units were spotless and I recovered uneventfully. I was referred to cardiac scan ,dermatolgists ,Cat scan,occupational therapy ,physical therapy,audiology (hearing loss),surgery clinic,EKG, opthamology, Neuro and extremly professional and detailed one on one with the head of pharmacy! Are you cottonpick'in kidding me!!!!!!!!! Veterans also present with mutiple system health issues steming from severe combat and non combat injuries,chronic disease(s),obesity,alcohol ,social economic ,age and psycological issues seemingly at a much greater propensity that private sector. From risk management,social services allied health departments,education infectious disease clerks and dietary no matter where you go its top notch.
I'm sure the VA will be happy to hear your endorsement. I too have used the VA for 30 years and find them good, if not excellent. The medical centers are excellent some of the clinics not too much. It seems to me thaat once you turn 65 Doctors who are billing Medicare want to do procedures and tests to run up the bill. The VA doctors are not driven by that incentive
You are welcome to "debunk" all the facts you want.
But the bottom line is---Does healthcare in America work?
The answer from physicians in this country, from foreigners looking at our system, from our OWN PEOPLE, is NO.
So whatever facts you want to "debunk", the truth of the matter is no one believes this works. Many believe it is because we have profit--and we are basically the ONLY for profit healthcare system in the world. It is destroying us.
From Yahoo answers comes a comment by a Canadian user who calls himself "freeside":
"--the answer seems to be yes we are happy with universal healthcare and have been since 1965 (40 odd years now), realize their are some pitfalls but by and large a pretty content bunch who know that the basic healthcare system is there for them be it cardiac, cancer etc.. and you and your faimly can deal with the illness and not be swamped by the bill
Obama will have a major fight on his hands down there. In 1965 when it was introduced here in saskatchewan the DOCTORS went on strike. They refused to join the program and Tommy Douglas the premier there actually flew in docs from the UK to force the docs back. He is till regarded as one of the most respected Canadians of all time. Needless to say the vested interests of HMOs, insureres, drug companies, medical device companies and docs with their own private fiefdoms down there will fight it tooth and nail!Your talking about cutting a whole lot of fat and the fattest pigs squeal loudest."
From Yahoo answers comes a comment by a Canadian user who calls himself "freeside":
Needless to say the vested interests of HMOs, insureres, drug companies, medical device companies and docs with their own private fiefdoms down there will fight it tooth and nail! Your talking about cutting a whole lot of fat and the fattest pigs squeal loudest."
I apologize to all for infractions on copyright material. I'm a good researcher, not a good computer person--as in, how do you make a link!!
This is a short excerpt from The President of the Dallas County Medical Society, and a link where you can read his entire message. He is a physician acutely aware of the shortcomings of healthcare in our society. I hope you enjoy reading:
"---the establishment of limits to what is paid for by government funded health plans is an inevitable, un-welcome truth. Effective health system reform never will manifest unless rationing (or whatever one wants to call the concept) is a key element, be it legislative or regulatory. Now, many of you know me to be fairly conservative in my political outlook, so you know I don’t make that statement lightly! "
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Posted by "Canadian Citizen" on 12-26-12
