Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Guns in the US are not going away and for much more than one reason the many of which have already been mentioned ad-nausem on this thread and others. Mass shooting or more aptly named "civilian mssacres" will continue to rise until the sickness runs its course and gang related shootings will also continue to rise. If law enfocement can do so little about these condidtions, responsible civilian gun owners can do even less in controlling the above facts. Since the entire nation is so polarized on so many fronts that the strong opinion on arms is just one more with no immediate solution in the near future.
There are a lot of reasons why people think they should possess firearms. Some are valid and others are at best misguided. The most common one is "I need my guns to defend and protect myself from the government." If you buy this "you are a day late and a dollar short" as the saying goes. Any legal weapon you have they already have a better one. They are not worried that we own AR-15s, Bushmasters or AK-47's. In this day and age those are popguns compared to the hardware the government has. The 300 million guns that are in the hands of private citizens are woefully inadequate against what the military has. Sadly we, the people, do not have the ordenance to carry out "the second American revolution". Most of what would be needed is illegal to purchase....unless, of course, you are a Mexican, a Brazilian or an African and so on. Then you can get it from any number of government agencies. This is because one of the largest sources of trade for the US government is the sale of armaments made in the USA.[We outsell our closest competeters , Russia and China, by some 75% with higher quality goods to boot.
A lot of folks just can't accept the truth that those National Guardsmen and Reservists will fire one their own countrymen. Then look at a just a few incidents in modern history; the Ludlow, Colorado massacre of 1916 25 plus killed by NG troops in one day. 119 overall in less than a week. Kent State, four unarmed students killed by the National Guard. Even more recent was Ruby Ridge and the 82 deaths at the Waco Texas massacre. And these are just a few of the incidents in recent history. Today most people believe that Randy Weaver was a member of the Ayran Nation and had a stockpile of arms at his home, the miners at Ludlow, the worst insult you can give an American.......they were communist gaents and the four kids at Kent State , Marxist sympathizers. Once the MSM colludes with the government your done for. That's a propaganda blitz that no one not even Rupert Murdoch can beat.
This country is controlled by money and that money is in the hands of the large coporations. We all do pretty well working under the system and no one really wants to, nor can they change it. Why? It makes a profit and keeps the country going. Those large corporations turn you taxes into products that serve the military-industrial complex which is the very foundation of the nation. Those 535 people in Washington along with the president and his cabinet are the brokers for the MIC.
You're going up against the US government at this late stage. Good luck with that one but get something a little better than an AR-15 or a Bushmaster. Me? I'll sit this one out and so will the majority of the population. Americans might be a little crazy but we aren't stupid.
Guns in the US are not going away and for much more than one reason the many of which have already been mentioned ad-nausem on this thread and others. Mass shooting or more aptly named "civilian mssacres" will continue to rise until the sickness runs its course and gang related shootings will also continue to rise. If law enfocement can do so little about these condidtions, responsible civilian gun owners can do even less in controlling the above facts. Since the entire nation is so polarized on so many fronts that the strong opinion on arms is just one more with no immediate solution in the near future.
There are a lot of reasons why people think they should possess firearms. Some are valid and others are at best misguided. The most common one is "I need my guns to defend and protect myself from the government." If you buy this "you are a day late and a dollar short" as the saying goes. Any legal weapon you have they already have a better one. They are not worried that we own AR-15s, Bushmasters or AK-47's. In this day and age those are popguns compared to the hardware the government has. The 300 million guns that are in the hands of private citizens are woefully inadequate against what the military has. Sadly we, the people, do not have the ordenance to carry out "the second American revolution". Most of what would be needed is illegal to purchase....unless, of course, you are a Mexican, a Brazilian or an African and so on. Then you can get it from any number of government agencies. This is because one of the largest sources of trade for the US government is the sale of armaments made in the USA.[We outsell our closest competeters , Russia and China, by some 75% with higher quality goods to boot.
A lot of folks just can't accept the truth that those National Guardsmen and Reservists will fire one their own countrymen. Then look at a just a few incidents in modern history; the Ludlow, Colorado massacre of 1916 25 plus killed by NG troops in one day. 119 overall in less than a week. Kent State, four unarmed students killed by the National Guard. Even more recent was Ruby Ridge and the 82 deaths at the Waco Texas massacre. And these are just a few of the incidents in recent history. Today most people believe that Randy Weaver was a member of the Ayran Nation and had a stockpile of arms at his home, the miners at Ludlow, the worst insult you can give an American.......they were communist gaents and the four kids at Kent State , Marxist sympathizers. Once the MSM colludes with the government your done for. That's a propaganda blitz that no one not even Rupert Murdoch can beat.
This country is controlled by money and that money is in the hands of the large coporations. We all do pretty well working under the system and no one really wants to, nor can they change it. Why? It makes a profit and keeps the country going. Those large corporations turn you taxes into products that serve the military-industrial complex which is the very foundation of the nation. Those 535 people in Washington along with the president and his cabinet are the brokers for the MIC.
You're going up against the US government at this late stage. Good luck with that one but get something a little better than an AR-15 or a Bushmaster. Me? I'll sit this one out and so will the majority of the population. Americans might be a little crazy but we aren't stupid.
You are certainly right about the federal govt have superior firepower to the civilian population. However, there is something to say about a 100 million people with AK47, AR10/15s, handguns etc. You have seen this same imbalance of power in Egypt and Syria and people have overwhelmed them merely because of the endless wave of people and even with small arms, they can eventually cause serious damage.
Another thing that always makes me feel better is the majority of the military is made up of southerners. While I don't mean to cast southerns in a superior light to northerners (I am from the North) they seem like one of the last bastions of human decency in this country relatively. I would feel that if anyone would disobey orders to kill/maim his country folk in a time of crisis it would be the southern boys. (Do you really think they want to potentially bomb their friends, family? I would never kill American citizens under any direct order from any commander, especially in a civil war scenario fighting over freedom of oppression.)
I saw someone mention it before too, being proficient in wielding guns is the only chance the nation has if any in the tyrannical overthrow situation were to occur. If you take over a couple of military supply areas, the UN imposes a no fly zone in a civil war situation, you never know what the militia of the USA with their guns could do to the last holdouts in the military because of the volume of armed people. (I hope it never happens, nor do I think it's beyond a .01% chance, but its worth theorycrafting and fun to talk about.)
You can mention Blackhawk down, the effectiveness of IEDs by Iraqis and USS Cole as times when crude weapons and surprise attacks brought down very high tech machinery and weaponry. Again, not saying the federal govt weaponry wouldn't shred people in mass but its worth noting that its not impregnable.
But back to reality and out of the conspiracy world, I think people mostly get outraged not over the guns specifically and wanting maybe fight the government someday but its a proxy for any other rights you have been granted by the constitution and then some isolated incident happens and everyone is punished by having a constitutional right revoked.
I believe there is an over-amplification of the need and rights of gun nuts here, that said, we don't need the world to be sticking their disfigured noses in our business and it warms my cockles to know we can unleash them on the rest of the world (like that guy in Mad Max) and destroy you all....
I believe there is an over-amplification of the need and rights of gun nuts here, that said, we don't need the world to be sticking their disfigured noses in our business and it warms my cockles to know we can unleash them on the rest of the world (like that guy in Mad Max) and destroy you all....
to you, as a fellow member, on a well respected world forum, your fellow forum members and citizens of the world, were posed a question concerning their views, opinions, and thoughts concerning the U.S. and guns. As a fellow member and citizen of the U.S. this is the best and the closest I am able to read what the world's citizens (as opposed to the media) thinks of this subject (along with many other conversations concerning their world and ours), and although I don't necessarily agree with some of the commentary, I certainly agree that they have a right to their opinion.
I sincerely doubt that there is a decent human being in the world who is not utterly and deeply saddened and heartbroken about what occurred at Sandy Hook or ANY of the similar occurrences THROUGHOUT the world, regardless of the country or its victims. Having said that I personally do not have a problem with the world's views about guns and the U.S., I do however have a huge problem with anyone insulting the citizenry of the U.S. (or any citizen, regardless of their nationality or country of origin) and painting the U.S. lanscape with the same brush. One can certainly have an opinion without resorting to insults, threats and hatred; it's just not civilized behavior and certainly not necessary.
Best regards, sincerely
HomeIsWhere...
Last edited by HomeIsWhere...; 12-29-2012 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: Additional commentary
Your facts and figures sterilize the fact that even with the lower murder rate 35 people a day are killed by guns in the USA,10-12K per year.Would that kind of per capita rate be acceptable in your country?
And 270 people per day are killed by their Doctors in the US due to medical errors... where is the outcry for more training and stricter controls over Physicians?
Even using the Brady Gun Control numbers, there are over 100,000 lives saved per year by use of firearms in their defense, that is almost 10 times the number taken by firearms... do we just let those 100,000 die without a way to defend themselves? (The actual number isn't really known but according to most reliable sources, is actually between 800,000 and 2.5 million uses of firearms in self defense per year in the US). Even your anti-gun proponents numbers support firearms as effective self-defense, you just are too blind to comprehend that fact.
Feel free to exit the debate, I was just using bar fights as an example. Every day confrontations will escalate to the point of injury or death.
This is one of the oldest and most used false arguments the gun control crowd likes to toss out there. Ever LOOK at the real numbers of these shootings and gun fights before and after a State adopts CCW laws? There is NOT a rise in these types of shootings, never has been. This is simply fear-mongering based on personal flawed thinking and not backed by ANY real facts or numbers. This same exact argument was bandied about when Michigan changed their CCW laws from "might" issue to "shall" issue. The number of concealed weapon permits went from about 52,000 to about 276,000, the violent crime rate went DOWN during that same time frame.
This country is controlled by money and that money is in the hands of the large coporations. We all do pretty well working under the system and no one really wants to, nor can they change it. Why? It makes a profit and keeps the country going. Those large corporations turn you taxes into products that serve the military-industrial complex which is the very foundation of the nation. Those 535 people in Washington along with the president and his cabinet are the brokers for the MIC.
You're going up against the US government at this late stage. Good luck with that one but get something a little better than an AR-15 or a Bushmaster. Me? I'll sit this one out and so will the majority of the population. Americans might be a little crazy but we aren't stupid.
I don't really share the pessimism or cynicism, but I do agree with the sentiment that the ideal that a bunch of fat rural libertarians that want to play "army" practice "maneuvers" with their little "militias" stand a chance at staving off a force of trained and equipped military fighters are about the same that a really aggressive and large bunny stands a chance against a wild African dog.
You are certainly right about the federal govt have superior firepower to the civilian population. However, there is something to say about a 100 million people with AK47, AR10/15s, handguns etc. You have seen this same imbalance of power in Egypt and Syria and people have overwhelmed them merely because of the endless wave of people and even with small arms, they can eventually cause serious damage.
Or, you can look at Syria or Chechnya:
Quote:
Another thing that always makes me feel better is the majority of the military is made up of southerners. While I don't mean to cast southerns in a superior light to northerners (I am from the North) they seem like one of the last bastions of human decency in this country relatively. I would feel that if anyone would disobey orders to kill/maim his country folk in a time of crisis it would be the southern boys. (Do you really think they want to potentially bomb their friends, family? I would never kill American citizens under any direct order from any commander, especially in a civil war scenario fighting over freedom of oppression.)
This is moral relativism and largely absurd. I, too, am a Northerner, and I also grew up on military bases... next to no soldiers have any desire to fire upon their own countrymen and I'd find it hard to believe that many of them would obey an order to fire upon American civilians given the order to, unless they were some sort of armed revolutionary force.
I find the moral views that dominate politics in the South to be as immoral and backwards as many southerners find mine to be. By your rationale, a Nothern boy who is deployed to and doesn't feel any real kinship towards the South is probably about as apt to fire on a civilian as a Southern boy deployed to the North who doesn't really feel any kinship with anyone.
This is one of the major reasons that the National Guard is supposed to mobilized by the governor - you have the California National Guard, the Texas National Guard, the Massachusetts National Guard, etc. - so that in the event that troops are mobilized, they're comprised predominantly of soldiers who live in that state and community.
Quote:
I saw someone mention it before too, being proficient in wielding guns is the only chance the nation has if any in the tyrannical overthrow situation were to occur. If you take over a couple of military supply areas, the UN imposes a no fly zone in a civil war situation, you never know what the militia of the USA with their guns could do to the last holdouts in the military because of the volume of armed people. (I hope it never happens, nor do I think it's beyond a .01% chance, but its worth theorycrafting and fun to talk about.)
You can mention Blackhawk down, the effectiveness of IEDs by Iraqis and USS Cole as times when crude weapons and surprise attacks brought down very high tech machinery and weaponry. Again, not saying the federal govt weaponry wouldn't shred people in mass but its worth noting that its not impregnable.
And that's the caveat to this...
If you take out a tank but you lose 1,000 people for that one... well, what did you really gain?
Quote:
But back to reality and out of the conspiracy world, I think people mostly get outraged not over the guns specifically and wanting maybe fight the government someday but its a proxy for any other rights you have been granted by the constitution and then some isolated incident happens and everyone is punished by having a constitutional right revoked.
I think this is definitely a large part of it, and why even people who don't like guns don't generally support a sweeping, wholesale ban on them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With all due respect, sincerely...
