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13,621 posts, read 12,754,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea
An increase from last year of only 0.7% even with the economy supposedly doing gang busters and in full blown recovery. Hmmm. They blamed Hurricane Sandy and the Sandyhook Shooting but it looks like the urge to spend money wasn't there and neither was the money.
People looked for bargains and have gotten a little shrewder in their spending with more limited income. I think they'll hit the stores for steeply discounted after Christmas sales. That and the gun dealers.
they spent all their money on guns and high capacity magazines
So let me get this straight, you don't have details on how to pay down debt and argue excessive debt will not harm the long term economy because of debt/GDP ratios, while completely ignoring the current (and unprecedented) actions of the federal reserve? We are not seeing 'improvements in the deficit'. The latest round of QE had virtually no impact on the economy. What exactly will the government do to continue to prop the economy up when QE and FED risk management starts to become ineffective?
You really need to think through HOW your plan might be implemented, because things aren't as rosy as you paint them to be.
UE rate is dropping.
House prices are recovering.
Factory orders are rising.
Industrial production is back up to the levels of the "good" years of the Bush Administration.
Virtually EVERY MEASURE is showing gradual but steady improvement in the economy. Even the UE rate (which is a classic TRAILING indicator - meaning it is one of the LAST things to return to a "healthy" state) is dropping slowly but steadily and soon the Fed measures will no longer be needed.
Those are all FACTS - and ALL of those facts are reflected in the lower deficit as tax revenues rise. What we've been doing has ALREADY had a huge impact on everything from factory orders to US exports to the UE rate to housing prices. By virtually EVERY measure the economy is well into recovery. It's been a SLOWER recovery than we'd like but it's definitely a RECOVERY so we're ALREADY on a path to reducing the deficit and the economy is now strong enough that the more wealthy among us can afford to pay a bit more towards reducing that deficit. Perhaps in a year or so, the rest of us can join with a bit higher taxes as well. I'd prefer not to see that YET for the lower income folks, but that time WILL come.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 12-26-2012 at 04:08 PM..
UE rate is dropping.
House prices are recovering.
Factory orders are rising.
Industrial production is back up to the levels of the "good" years of the Bush Administration.
Virtually EVERY MEASURE is showing gradual but steady improvement in the economy. Even the UE rate (which is a classic TRAILING indicator - meaning it is one of the LAST things to return to a "healthy" state) is dropping slowly but steadily and soon the Fed measures will no longer be needed.
Those are all FACTS - and ALL of those facts are reflected in the lower deficit as tax revenues rise. What we've been doing has ALREADY had a huge impact on everything from factory orders to US exports to the UE rate to housing prices. By virtually EVERY measure the economy is well into recovery. It's been a SLOWER recovery than we'd like but it's definitely a RECOVERY so we're ALREADY on a path to reducing the deficit and the economy is now strong enough that the more wealthy among us can afford to pay a bit more towards reducing that deficit. Perhaps in a year or so, the rest of us can join with a bit higher taxes as well. I'd prefer not to see that YET for the lower income folks, but that time WILL come.
UE rate is dropping.
House prices are recovering.
Factory orders are rising.
Industrial production is back up to the levels of the "good" years of the Bush Administration.
Virtually EVERY MEASURE is showing gradual but steady improvement in the economy. Even the UE rate (which is a classic TRAILING indicator - meaning it is one of the LAST things to return to a "healthy" state) is dropping slowly but steadily and soon the Fed measures will no longer be needed.
Those are all FACTS - and ALL of those facts are reflected in the lower deficit as tax revenues rise. What we've been doing has ALREADY had a huge impact on everything from factory orders to US exports to the UE rate to housing prices. By virtually EVERY measure the economy is well into recovery. It's been a SLOWER recovery than we'd like but it's definitely a RECOVERY so we're ALREADY on a path to reducing the deficit and the economy is now strong enough that the more wealthy among us can afford to pay a bit more towards reducing that deficit. Perhaps in a year or so, the rest of us can join with a bit higher taxes as well. I'd prefer not to see that YET for the lower income folks, but that time WILL come.
Ken
Every measure huh? So when the US can no longer run $1 trillion plus deficits? Just in case you forgot that's the only reason the US is moving forward.
At the rate the deficit is declining it will be about $800 billion about the time OADI trust fund goes bankrupt.
That wouldn't be so bad but at that point the shortfall to OASDI will be $200 billion and increasing by $100 billion each and every year.
And even that would t be so bad but the liberal wing of the government is completely deluding themselves and acting like they can tax the rich to pay for that.
Unless the liberal wing of the government knows something everyone else doesn't that's going to increase GDP to $25 trillion by 2030 you and the rest of the bunch are in for a real bumpy ride that you were repeatedly warned about.
You mean the Ryan Budget, that called for further tax-cuts on the rich; slashing Medicaid and child nutrition programs; and privatizing Medicare?
Not passing any budget and working on continuing resolutions is superior to passing a bad budget. There is no requirement in the Constitution for the government to have a budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
[/u]
Let alone a balanced budget.
I am not sure any of the few Presidents who claim to have balanced the budget really did, when one looks at all the smoke and mirrors. The greatest advocate for a balanced budget, Reagan, never, not once submitted a balanced budget. Darn shame Clinton did not go for such an amendement during his illusion of a balanced budget.
Medicare/Medicad represent about 40% of federal spending. It's going to exceed 50% within the next decade. Medicaid is the single greatest line item in most state budgets. M&M, as is, is unsustainable.
No, Ryan's budget was a fraud that promised a balanced budget through magic asterisks and absurd assumptions -- like making the assumption that unemployment would drop to the level in the 1950s when women mostly didn't work and that medical costs would suddenly stop rising in price.
Independent analysts reviewed his budget and concluded it was a sham.
Every measure huh? So when the US can no longer run $1 trillion plus deficits? Just in case you forgot that's the only reason the US is moving forward.
At the rate the deficit is declining it will be about $800 billion about the time OADI trust fund goes bankrupt.
That wouldn't be so bad but at that point the shortfall to OASDI will be $200 billion and increasing by $100 billion each and every year.
And even that would t be so bad but the liberal wing of the government is completely deluding themselves and acting like they can tax the rich to pay for that.
Unless the liberal wing of the government knows something everyone else doesn't that's going to increase GDP to $25 trillion by 2030 you and the rest of the bunch are in for a real bumpy ride that you were repeatedly warned about.
Yes - by virtually every measure. What part of that do you not understand?
$1 trillion plus deficits will likely be a thing of the past beginning this coming fiscal year since tax revenues are rising even without the new taxes that will go into place next year.
Social Security can be fixed by slighly raising the retirement age and/or raising SS taxes. No one wants to do it but it CAN and WILL be done because there is no other option. The Baby Boomer wave problem is a temporary thing - not a permanent issue with the program.
Yes - by virtually every measure. What part of that do you not understand?
$1 trillion plus deficits will likely be a thing of the past beginning this coming fiscal year since tax revenues are rising even without the new taxes that will go into place next year.
Social Security can be fixed by slighly raising the retirement age and/or raising SS taxes. No one wants to do it but it CAN and WILL be done because there is no other option. The Baby Boomer wave problem is a temporary thing - not a permanent issue with the program.
Ken
This coming fiscal year, the one that's already started, showed the first two months with a $292 billion deficit.
How am I suppose to take you serious now when you don't even know when the fiscal years start or end and where you're already at concerning those.
That wouldn't be so bad but you think you're going to suck billions upon billions out of the economy for free.
UE rate is dropping.
House prices are recovering.
Factory orders are rising.
Industrial production is back up to the levels of the "good" years of the Bush Administration.
Virtually EVERY MEASURE is showing gradual but steady improvement in the economy. Even the UE rate (which is a classic TRAILING indicator - meaning it is one of the LAST things to return to a "healthy" state) is dropping slowly but steadily and soon the Fed measures will no longer be needed.
Those are all FACTS - and ALL of those facts are reflected in the lower deficit as tax revenues rise. What we've been doing has ALREADY had a huge impact on everything from factory orders to US exports to the UE rate to housing prices. By virtually EVERY measure the economy is well into recovery. It's been a SLOWER recovery than we'd like but it's definitely a RECOVERY so we're ALREADY on a path to reducing the deficit and the economy is now strong enough that the more wealthy among us can afford to pay a bit more towards reducing that deficit. Perhaps in a year or so, the rest of us can join with a bit higher taxes as well. I'd prefer not to see that YET for the lower income folks, but that time WILL come.
Ken
Every measure? You don't seem to understand what a deficit is, and you don't seem to understand the role the federal reserve is playing in the recovery. Can you talk intelligently about the current actions of the federal reserve, or do you only look at positive measures and point-blank ignore any negative signs? We are in a short term recovery at the expense of long term growth.
Every measure? You don't seem to understand what a deficit is, and you don't seem to understand the role the federal reserve is playing in the recovery. Can you talk intelligently about the current actions of the federal reserve, or do you only look at positive measures and point-blank ignore any negative signs? We are in a short term recovery at the expense of long term growth.
My god the stupidity.
My God the stupidity indeed.
The federal reserve has been expanding the money supply in the last five-years in order provide liquidity for businesses and consumers to borrow. It arguably staved off a depression. As a result, there was no inflation, debasement of the dollar, or high interest rates that conservative theorists told us would have happened.
But maybe the killer is this: since when do the kinds of people who worry all the time about deficits believe that the Fed can monetize a substantial part of a large deficit, for four whole years, without any negative consequences? If you believed in the framework these people have, all that expansion of the monetary base should have produced runaway inflation by now, as many of them did in fact predict early in the game. It hasn’t -- and no, don’t give me the bit about the government hiding the true rate of inflation. Independent estimates are not significantly different from the official gauges.
I have no idea what you mean by, "we are in a short term recovery at the expense of long term growth." As Keynes famously said, in the long run, we're all dead. But there is no evidence that encouraging growth now reduces growth later.
Last edited by MTAtech; 12-27-2012 at 06:46 AM..
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