[quote=rorqual;27933437]"We can't blame Reagan for the debt's increase until his first budget took effect, October 1, 1981. Then, for 12 years until Sept. 30, 1993, the Republicans ballooned the debt. Later, George W. Bush took over.
Under Reagan and Bush: $3.4 Trillion increase in the debt.
Under George W. Bush: $6.1 Trillion.[1]
Total: $9.5 Trillion. (without counting interest)"
Why the Republican National Debt is $12 Trillion
Your source is FUBAR.
As of
01/23/2013 the US public debt is $11,571,556,605,939.06 to the penny....
Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
Hahahaha I just killed your thread.....hahahah....
If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post crap like this no more.
An intelligent person would have titled the thread something like:
"Help me determine the accuracy of these claims" and then posted the propaganda for people to examine, and then we can explain why it is all lies.
Instead, you basically just told everyone,
"I will drink any flavor Kool-Aid, even poo flavor, so long as it says something nice about Obama."
So how stupid is your source, that they cannot make the distinction between public debt and intra-governmental holdings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
"The danger is from the Great Recession that has cost America 10 million jobs.
|
Um, that's just plain wrong.
All recessions are caused by gross economic inefficiency. Often than not, government is the cause of the gross inefficiency which leads to recession, but it is also just as true that gross inefficiency in the private sector can causes recessions.
We can compare the Great Depression to the Great Recession, but we can cannot compare them to the Carter/Reagan Recession or to the Bush Recession -- must contrast them. However, we can compare the Bush Recession to the Carter/Reagan Recession.
The Carter/Reagan Recession was caused by gross government inefficiency at the federal, State and local levels, plus unions. The oppressive tax regimes in the New England States drove textile manufacturing out and to the Southeast Region of Georgia and the Carolinas. Federal and State taxes and regulations, unions, plus other factors forced manufacturing to flee the Rust Belt -- the Midwest -- for the South and Southwest, especially Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas and Arizona. For the computer/electronics industry, moving from the East Coast to the West Coast made sense economically in terms of being closer to labor, raw resources, parts and semi-finished goods, as well as the end-users -- mostly Southeast Asia.
This is the beauty of Capitalism -- which is a Property Theory and not an Economic System. Because Capital is in the hands of private individuals, Capital was quickly shifted and while there was turmoil with lost jobs and what not, those jobs were all recovered after the shift of Capital took place.
In a Socialist State, the government (or other group acting as an Agent of Socialism) owns or controls the Capital. Government is always too slow to respond, and so there's tremendous economic damage, and recovery is limited.
For the Bush Recession, the Cold War is ending, so Capital is being shifted from the Defense Sector of the economy to other Economic Sectors -- that is one problem with government spending...it can create problems like that. The recession was short, because we're only shifting Capital from one sector to another, and not one region of the country to another. All jobs lost were gained back.
For the Great Depression, you have electromechanical industrialization creating surplus labor. At the same time, manufacturing methods and processes are changing to become more efficient, using concepts like assembly line production. Not only does this create surplus labor, it also creates excess inventory --- so it's no surprise that Real Deflation was a problem during the Great Depression.
Government over-spending leads to rampant Real Inflation in the post-WW I Era running at 15%-25% annually causing even more problems. That, and the surplus labor piles up causing the 1925 Recession and subsequent collapse of the housing bubble. Surplus inventory and surplus labor continue to mount causing the 1928 Recession. Although the country starts to recover Summer 1929, surplus labor is still a problem, and the high taxes and protective tariffs enacted by the the Republican-controlled House & Senate send the country back into recession in 1930.
FDR's policies are not sufficient to overcome the massive surplus labor, and actually cause two more recessions, before WW II finally absorbs all of the labor. At the end of the war, you go right back into the Depression due to the surplus labor and what ends it is the Bretton Woods Agreement and the Marshall Plan.
The Great Recession is basically history repeating itself. Since 1995, your wages have been flat or declining due to competition from developing States. Once Y2K/Millennium Fever ended, you started shedding jobs and building up surplus labor, creating the Clinton Recession, and then surplus labor continued to pile up, leading to a collapse of the housing bubble and continuing problems.
Here, Capital is being shifted out of the US to the developing States ---- something that should have been happening all along anyway --- and Americans cannot compete globally due to the great disparity in wages. Technology is also playing a role here just as it did during the electromechanical development of the US during the first two decades of the 20th Century --- but its impact is more slow and deliberate.
Like FDR, Obama's policies will cause at least one, if not two more recessions before this decade ends, and without a world war to absorb the surplus labor......there's no place for it to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
The debt frenzy is making that worse. Take a look (in the graph) at how the debt skyrocketed during World War II. That's how we ended 12 years of Great Depression.
|
These are the tax revenues the government got from granting "export licenses" specifically for war materiel....
1936 $24.2 Million
1937 $46.1 Million
1938 $86.3 Million
1939 $143.7 Million
1940 $873.1 Million
Consider that in 1940 the US government collected $6.5 Billion in revenues, so $873 Million is 13.5% of all revenues collected....just for licenses to export war materiel.
War ended the Great Depression, not FDR's heroic spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
Talking points again? So Democrats are responsible for the Reagan Tax Cuts and military spending?
|
Talking points? No, the US Constitution. It is the duty of the House, specifically the Speaker of the House to originate spending and revenue bills.
With the exception of 1947-48 and 1953-54, Democrats controlled the house from 1931 to 1993.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
|
I already debunked your thread, and used the US Treasury Department to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
Presidents can easily veto "spending bills". Reagan could have done if he was fiscally responsible.
|
And had he done so, you would have accused him of stone-walling and creating grid-lock.
At the time Obama was sworn in January 2009, the deficit stood at $400 Billion.
Why didn't Obama levy a government-wide spending freeze? He could have. Bush did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
OK- since you wont click and read the link, I will post it here for you:
|
I already debunked that.
Had you read my posts from back in 2007, you would know that I was telling everyone to get used to things like "house-husbands" --- because people were going to lose their jobs permanently -- as in they would never work again for the rest of their natural lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
So if your parents deeded a house to you that was worth 100K with a 200K mortgage it becomes your fault?
|
You accepted the responsibility. There's no requirement that one must be president --- it is a personal choice. If Obama couldn't handle it, then he should have resigned or not run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
We cannot generate enough revenue to even pay the interest on the debt that Bush left us.
|
Which Bush?
And you're generating over $2 TRILLION in revenues....you certainly can pay the interest....they should have a special emoticon for people who are overly emotional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
What is your solution? Let the poor people starve?
|
Poor people will starve anyway. The poor are poor because they are stupid. They starve because they are stupid also. How stupid is it to approach me in the parking lot of Kroger's and offer me Food Stamps in exchange for cash, when I'm going to berate and insult that person for attempting fraud?
$10 --- buy meth or buy food for the kids --- what a poser.
If you really cared about the poor, you would assign them a receiver who would manage their money for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Myself? I think we should tell China it's time to renegotate our debt if they want to keep doing business with us.
|
Uh, do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Your public debt is
$11.5 TRILLION.
Foreign entities hold $5.55 TRILLION
Of that, the Top 5 foreign debt holders are:
China $1.17 TRILLION
Japan $11.3 TRILLION
Caribbean Bnkng Ctrs $283.7 Billion
OPEC $260.1 Billion
Brazil $257.0 Billion
What percentage of your public debt is held by China?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorqual
Wrong...again.
You Tea Partiers just cant get anything right (no wonder the record low approval ratings):
|
So you get slammed and your response is to label everyone as "Tea Partiers?"
That's about as lame as last week's initial unemployment claims...
The...number of actual initial claims...totaled 436,766 in the week ending January 19...There were 416,880 initial claims in the comparable week in 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Just look at the facts man and think. Bush started 2 wars and gave huge tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy.
|
Yes, let's do look at the facts...
Impress us all and explain what happens if Bush doesn't cut taxes and start 2 wars.
Not amused....
Mircea
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
