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So, since you seem to have these definitions down pat let me ask you "what do you call a person who kills murdering religious fanatics before they kill innocents like YOU?"
What do you call a person who risks everything so you can go about your daily life with little fear of being blown to bits or having a body part lopped off?
Which person in IRAQ is going to do that to me? As the 'American "I killed more than anyone else" Sniper' has proven, I need to worry about people here instead.
Well, here's your motive. The murderer is stark, raving insane. And no he's not trying to kill himself to keep from talking- he's been trying to kill himself for months. He's your basic, garden variety lunatic with little rhyme nor reason to his actions. Read the article
Why is this a gun control issue, besides the fact that it is in the politics forum. This has nothing to do with firearm self defense more than a hunting accident does.
You're right. This second thread was moved from the True Crime subforum, and now the thread has a whole different slant. It's too bad because it would have been interesting to discuss the crime, vs the political implications of gun control (as usual).
I'm going to agree w/you. And I find it hilarious that the people toting how great guns are for self-defense cannot see how utterly hard their argument has failed. Clearly having guns on them did nothing to protect them from some other nutter. The exact opposite outcome of all those people out there claiming guns prevent something like this happening. It hasn't, it doesn't, end of story.
And seatbelts won't save you from death in a car accident, nor will helmets save you from brain damage or death in a motorcycle crash and airbags? Those don't always save you either.
So why do we use them?
Well, here's your motive. The murderer is stark, raving insane. And no he's not trying to kill himself to keep from talking- he's been trying to kill himself for months. He's your basic, garden variety lunatic with little rhyme nor reason to his actions. Read the article
And as Chris has so graphically illustrated; "familiarity breeds contempt". His taking for granted that this flawed character would respond as all the others had with visits to the range in the past, he allowed his guard to drop et-voilà , one split seconds inattention was all it took.
Here's the deal for me; if ownership of a firearm is prohibited where a mental disorder is of record, why the hell is it then allowable to take someone with said mental disorder to a shooting range? AND why would ANYONE think this to be an appropriate exercise?
Mental disorders of any kind, by their very nature, preclude the ability to accurately predict behaviour.
Shouldn't anyone thinking this to be a valid treatment protocol firstly ascertain exactly what the disorder and it's cause are before "assuming" a day at the range "male bonding with firearms" should be used in it's treatment?
And as Chris has so graphically illustrated; "familiarity breeds contempt". His taking for granted that this flawed character would respond as all the others had with visits to the range in the past, he allowed his guard to drop et-voilà , one split seconds inattention was all it took.
Here's the deal for me; if ownership of a firearm is prohibited where a mental disorder is of record, why the hell is it then allowable to take someone with said mental disorder to a shooting range? AND why would ANYONE think this to be an appropriate exercise?
Mental disorders of any kind, by their very nature, preclude the ability to accurately predict behaviour.
Shouldn't anyone thinking this to be a valid treatment protocol firstly ascertain exactly what the disorder and it's cause are before "assuming" a day at the range "male bonding with firearms" should be used in it's treatment?
"PTSD" is the state of all effective soldiers in combat. It's only when they return to civilian life and don't shake the mentality of an effective soldier that this becomes a problem, and a label like PTSD applies. One rule for the combat zone, one rule for civilian life. If you don't play by rules, people think you're insane. personally I think most everyone else is insane.
Anyways, PTSD does not disqualify one from purchasing of a firearm. Nor should it. People with PTSD are entitled to a mechanism of self defense.
My son spent 20 months in Iraq during the surge, with an infantry unit. His convoy was hit three times by IEDs. He was injured three times. He held his platoon leader as he died. His brigade suffered about forty deaths and untold injuries, many very serious and permanently debilitating. Long story short - my son suffers from PTSD.
As his psychologist pointed out so succinctly, "PTSD is not an abnormal response. It's a NORMAL response to very ABNORMAL circumstances."
Four years later, he has learned to assimilate most of the events of those 20 months, and the only lingering effect of the PTSD is night terrors/night paralysis. This still does continue to freak him out though.
I think the vast majority of those suffering from PTSD would be fine when it comes to possessing a gun. However, just like any other person suffering from debilitating symptoms of mental stress, they should be under a doctor's care and should be screened for more serious manifestations of mental illness.
WE NEED BETTER MENTAL HEALTH SCREENING AND CARE IN THIS COUNTRY! No gun control measures should even be CONSIDERED without addressing this problem simultaneously.
My son spent 20 months in Iraq during the surge, with an infantry unit. His convoy was hit three times by IEDs. He was injured three times. He held his platoon leader as he died. His brigade suffered about forty deaths and untold injuries, many very serious and permanently debilitating. Long story short - my son suffers from PTSD.
As his psychologist pointed out so succinctly, "PTSD is not an abnormal response. It's a NORMAL response to very ABNORMAL circumstances."
Four years later, he has learned to assimilate most of the events of those 20 months, and the only lingering effect of the PTSD is night terrors/night paralysis. This still does continue to freak him out though.
I think the vast majority of those suffering from PTSD would be fine when it comes to possessing a gun. However, just like any other person suffering from debilitating symptoms of mental stress, they should be under a doctor's care and should be screened for more serious manifestations of mental illness.
WE NEED BETTER MENTAL HEALTH SCREENING AND CARE IN THIS COUNTRY! No gun control measures should even be CONSIDERED without addressing this problem simultaneously.
During the custody hearing, the psychiatrist diagnosed me PTSD among other things. I had to spend a week with a psychologist to get a certificate that I had 'impulse control' though that didn't work. I'm still not allowed to see my kids legally, as that's assessed to be a danger to them.
I have flashes where I lose control over my temper. But I always had that. Since I was a kid. People now put that nicely in the category of PTSD but it's always been me, maybe now it occurs more often. For example, I mentioned this in another thread, but if I see someone parking over 2 spots, I'll lose control and begin trashing their car. When I come to it, I feel very bad, and leave my contact information to pay for damages. Sometimes I think I provide lessons for good parking on my dime lol. On a gun range, it actually calms me down. I have to control my fits (but then there is almost no need to have a fit, why would someone **** you off there?). About one peculiarity there (indoor gun range) is I can't wear hearing protection. It gives me this this kind of muffled, trapped feeling. I can't describe it. People are amazed I can stand it and not go deaf, but then I'm pretty much deaf anyways.
About the only major difference I have is sleep. I used to sleep like a baby before the war. Now I get maybe 2-3 hours of solid sleep a night. I have panic attacks several times a night where I think I'm dying. They jolt me awake, and then it takes a while for me to go back to sleep. Sometimes these jolts themselves can be violent and I have hurt myself (threw myself down a 10+ foot bunk bed and shattered my foot half asleep).
But I'm otherwise very normal. I'm the kind of guy who will help a stranger pulled off the side of road, I pick up hitchhikers, and I'm a very nice guy.
I don't consider the guy a hero. He voluntarily participated in a needless, immoral, attack on another country against the popular will of their citizens. Far from "fighting for our freedoms", he was carrying out the political will of corrupted US politicians. He was directly responsible for enormous suffering of hundreds Arab peasants who lost their husbands, and sons to a foreign, unwanted, invader. And his only lame excuse was that he was "following orders" as if that resolves a person of all moral responsibility for participating in this fiasco. As a Vet, I feel much more sympathy for these villagers that lost loved ones due to his slaughter spree, than this dead braggart who gloated about his kills.
Last edited by padcrasher; 02-06-2013 at 10:20 AM..
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