Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Actually (and this is from John Hopkins University):
At the time when they committed the gun crime leading to their incarceration, only 27 percent of these gun offenders were prohibited from possessing firearms because they
had previously been convicted of a felony. Of these offenders, 60 percent could legally possess guns prior to committing the gun crime that led to their incarceration, including four percent who
had prior misdemeanor convictions involving violence and/or firearms, six percent convicted of
other misdemeanors, five percent convicted of a felony in a juvenile court, and 13 percent with
prior arrests but no convictions.
The question is not where criminals get guns but why they use guns.
What is their intent?
What do they hope to accomplish?
Why would they use a gun to commit a crime if the penalties are so harsh?
If a criminal did not have a gun, would they abandon a life of crime as in a career of crime.
Asking where criminals got their guns is like wondering how someone caught a big trout while standing beside you and instead of asking what lure or fly they used, you ask, "where did you buy your waders?'
Supporting evidence please. If so, if they are selling to known felons who are not able to legally posess firearms, they are committing a federal felony. In which case, as the NRA (and everyone with half a brain) has said, go and enforce the existing laws and bust these guys.
Given the stats I posted earlier, it's extremely likely that there is some level of corruption here. No, I don't have conclusive proof. Although it may be out there somewhere. I vaguely remember seeing a more comprehensive study by the ATF however I was not able to find it when I started this thread.
I doubt the numbers are what I posted in my OP however. There are no details on how many of these 60% of guns used in crimes were acquired by the criminals themselves directly from that 1.2% of dealers, or if said criminals had prior records. Some of these dealers could be in high crime localities, and therefore more likely to sell to a future, not current criminal, or more likely to sell to someone who's home will be burglarized and their gun stolen.
I'm all for "busting these guys" if they are selling directly to felons, I just wanted to see if the anti-gun crowd was for it too, as opposed to ridiculous assault weapons bans etc. and other forms of posturing to the logically deficient.
That was really my point here, and I think I got my answer given that the usual anti-gun crowd is absolutely nowhere to be found, when I've presented a very solid lead we could follow in order to limit criminals' access to firearms.
And even if your numbers are right, that's still a hell of a lot more than use "assault" rifles. Your argument goes against universal background checks as well. Those two have had the spotlight recently from the supposed anti gun violence crowd.
Actually (and this is from John Hopkins University):
At the time when they committed the gun crime leading to their incarceration, only 27 percent of these gun offenders were prohibited from possessing firearms because they
had previously been convicted of a felony. Of these offenders, 60 percent could legally possess
guns prior to committing the gun crime that led to their incarceration, including four percent who
had prior misdemeanor convictions involving violence and/or firearms, six percent convicted of
other misdemeanors, five percent convicted of a felony in a juvenile court, and 13 percent with
prior arrests but no convictions.
If you don't have probable cause, you can't. Present your evidence and probable cause to a judge, get a warrant and investigate all you want.
Why do I feel the need to remind you of:
”The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized。“
All you have been saying about ATF is in violation of these words. By the way, it's the 4th Amendment.
The difference is that licensed dealers are already subject to inspections by the ATF, legislation prohibits them from inspecting dealers more than once a year but with their workforce they are lucky if they can visit a dealer every 10 years.
If you don't have probable cause, you can't. Present your evidence and probable cause to a judge, get a warrant and investigate all you want.
Why do I feel the need to remind you of:
”The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized。“
All you have been saying about ATF is in violation of these words. By the way, it's the 4th Amendment.
I never indicated anything about a search warrant, only making the information available to local law inforcement, that was the case prior to the amendment, why should they not have that information available. There was no sane reason for placing that restriction on law enforcement.
I never indicated anything about a search warrant, only making the information available to local law inforcement, that was the case prior to the amendment, why should they not have that information available. There was no sane reason for placing that restriction on law enforcement.
For private information to be made available, you need a search warrant. Please tell me you get that.
For a local LEO, he can request the access if he has a ongoing and relevant case. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's done all the time.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
