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Old 02-23-2013, 09:15 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
I totally agree with you, but how? Let's think this through. For most welfare programs you have to work or be in the process of seeking employment.
Theoretically, yes. In actual practice, NO.


Free-loading welfare queens: the video New York Liberals don't want you to see - YouTube

Quote:
You made the claim that poor women have easy and free access to BC methods. I contend otherwise.
One word: Medicaid

And sex ed is taught in all 50 states in public schools.
Quote:
It isn't helping anyone and it isn't sustainable, but I don't have a viable alternative.
Continuing the stats quo is DISASTROUS. How can you NOT see that?

54% of births in Illinois are Medicaid births.
70% of births in New Mexico are Medicaid births.

Quote:
Where is the incentive for these people to seek out higher paid employment?
Exactly. There is none. They can make MORE money by not working, bearing more and more children, and collecting more and more public assistance benefits.
Quote:
So workfare. Wouldn't a job training program be better?
BOTH would be good.
Quote:
So what you are saying is that people would rather live in squalor and in the middle of a war-zone than live in a nice community?
Yes. The sheer numbers of those doing so provide the proof.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:45 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saritaschihuahua View Post
That's part of the basis of the right wing ideology - attack the weakest and defend the wealthiest. There's really nothing to admire in right wing ideology. Nothing whatsoever. Their ideology is nefarious at its finest.
Yes, conservatives always side with the traditional wealthy and powerful elite. It is my contention that American conservatives don't really believe in a representative government for all Americans.

They believe that only certain Americans should vote and be represented by this government, and that when the government serves the needs of other Americans that is tantamount to stealing and enslaving them, and government being Santa Claus.

For conservatives the needs of certain groups of Americans just don't count, and they are very angered whenever the government attempts to address the needs of those Americans.

This is what all of this welfare talk is always about ultimately.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:48 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
And you think an exponentially growing welfare-dependent class that eclipses our country's ability to artificially financially support it is a good idea because?
Irrelevant, but again conservatives are very good at creating nonsense talking points. I pay those talking points and lies zero attention.

conservatives hate poor people and single moms and attack them every chance they get. They hate that the government attempts to address the needs of those people. They want the government to punish them.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
It is my contention that American conservatives don't really believe in a representative government for all Americans.
Sure they do. They just want everyone to PAY for it. That's the liberal stumbling block.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Irrelevant
Exactly HOW is an exponentially growing welfare-dependent class irrelevant?

As already noted in this thread:
54% of all Illinois births are Medicaid births
70% of all New Mexico births are Medicaid births

Guess what Medicaid means.
It means free medical care that somebody else pays for.

What's your plan for when the welfare-dependent class eclipses our country's ability to pay to support them?
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:07 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sure they do. They just want everyone to PAY for it. That's the liberal stumbling block.
That is the problem. A representative democracy represents all citizens period. If you are born an American citizen, then your government is suppose to represent your interests as an American.

So children don't count because they certainly don't pay. So the elderly don't count because many of them certainly don't pay. So the disabled don't count because many of them certainly don't pay. So the poor don't count because many of them certainly aren't paying income taxes.

Your form of representative government actually would leave out millions of Americans from having their interests represented by their government.

Which proves my point about conservatives. Thanks.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:09 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
That is the problem. A representative democracy represents all citizens period. If you are born an American citizen, then your government is suppose to represent your interests as an American.

So children don't count because they certainly don't pay.
Children don't vote anyway. Your point is invalid, so answer the question...

Exactly HOW is an exponentially growing welfare-dependent class irrelevant?

As already noted in this thread:
54% of all Illinois births are Medicaid births
70% of all New Mexico births are Medicaid births

Guess what Medicaid means.
It means free medical care that somebody else pays for.

What's your plan for when the exponentially growing welfare-dependent class eclipses our country's ability to pay to support them?
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:12 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Exactly HOW is an exponentially growing welfare-dependent class irrelevant?

As already noted in this thread:
54% of all Illinois births are Medicaid births
70% of all New Mexico births are Medicaid births

Guess what Medicaid means.
It means free medical care that somebody else pays for.

What's your plan for when the welfare-dependent class eclipses our country's ability to pay to support them?
LOL, so your issue is medicaid? Or the actual births? What is your solution to the problem that more and more employers because of the expense of health insurance don't offer their employees health insurance?

What is your solution to the skyrocketing cost of health care that is causing the problem?

What is your solution to any actual problem?

Oh yeah your solution is to gut the program that attempts to address the problem on some level and attack the people who participate in the programs as lazy, crooks, liars, cheats, immoral, etc.

Your solution is that the government should do nothing for those people and that the government helping those people is the problem.

It is the conservative way, attack poor people as the cause of societal problems and focus on punishing them.
Please enlighten me.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
LOL, so your issue is medicaid? Or the actual births? What is your solution to the problem that more and more employers because of the expense of health insurance don't offer their employees health insurance?
Irrelevant. One must have NO or EXTREMELY LOW income to qualify for Medicaid.

Illinois does not have a 54% unemployment rate. Nor does New Mexico have a 70% unemployment rate.

So... answer the question...

As already noted in this thread:
54% of all Illinois births are Medicaid births
70% of all New Mexico births are Medicaid births

Guess what Medicaid means.
It means free medical care that somebody else pays for.

What's your plan for when the exponentially growing welfare-dependent class eclipses our country's ability to pay to support them?
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:34 AM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,297,969 times
Reputation: 2314
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Irrelevant. One must have NO or EXTREMELY LOW income to qualify for Medicaid.

Illinois does not have a 54% unemployment rate. Nor does New Mexico have a 70% unemployment rate.

So... answer the question...

As already noted in this thread:
54% of all Illinois births are Medicaid births
70% of all New Mexico births are Medicaid births

Guess what Medicaid means.
It means free medical care that somebody else pays for.

What's your plan for when the exponentially growing welfare-dependent class eclipses our country's ability to pay to support them?
Again, the problem is that employers are not offering many workers health insurance. The problem is the exploding cost of healthcare.

Medicaid attempts to address that problem. I didn't mention the unemployed. You did.

So again what is your solution to the actual problem of lack of health insurance by working Americans and exploding healthcare costs?

Again your solution is to gut the program Medicaid that addresses the problem and attack the poor people most of whom are working as the problem.

Please enlighten me.
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