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Well -- for starters -- did the parents pay attention that their kids were having a party in the first place? Did a single one of those parents set any kind of curfew for their children? Did the parents ask if there would be an adult there to supervise? Did any parents actually speak with that adult? Did the parents knwo where their kids were going when the kid said they were going to a party?
Yes I know these parents did NOT supervise these children. You don't just instill values -- but it's pretty clear not one of the kids at that party had any values in them, you also do normal parenting things like set a curfew for your child, you drive them to the party and pick them up from the party, you talk with the other parents and you make sure that your child knows that them coming home drunk, even by 11pm is not going to happen.
Amazing that you post over and over again about personal responsibility in the threads regarding public assistance, poor people are responsible for themselves, yet here you seem to need to find SOMEONE, ANYONE ELSE, to blame but the people who committed the crime. That seems really, really odd.
For that the blame goes to the parents. Where were her parents in this? Aren't they the kind of parents that have no clue what their children are doing? Did they give her any guidance at all? Did they pay any attention to the kind of parties she was going to and the kind of low-lives she was hanging out with.
Parents have a responsibility to make rules for their kids -- and that includes the idiots who raised the rapists.
OK, this is the one and only post about parents I'm leaving intact. Yes, let's keep blaming parents for the actions of their 16/17 year old kids. Should have been supervising these kids. While I agree that the parents of the party hosts did not do their "due diligence" the parents of the other kids have no culpability in this incident. Those of you ranting on and on about the parents are either not parents yourselves or do not have kids that age.
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Originally Posted by ellemint
I ask the same thing: Where were the parents of the boys in this? Are they the kind of parents that have no clue what their sons are doing? Did they give their sons any guidance at all? Did they pay any attention to the kinds of parties their sons were going to and the kind of low-lives they were hanging out with? Oh, and did they know that their sons were the low-lives? Well, they do now.
Well, whadda ya know? Here's another one to leave intact. Same answer. Plus this, below:
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Kids have been pulling stuff like this for years. I have no idea what kind of parents these kids have but kids have made excuses for years to sneak off to parties.
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Originally Posted by malamute
Child neglect.
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Originally Posted by malamute
Yes -- the bad parents need a little push from the law -
their idiot parents
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Originally Posted by malamute
for parents who neglect their children -- and neglect includes letting children run wild and failing to supervise them.
Some of these parents in this rape case very likely should be heading to prison themselves. Minor children that should have been supervised, obviously no one was, and who supplied the alcohol and drugs -- or money to buy them?
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
I think they should have tried the parents of the DRUNK 16 YEAR OLD GIRL. What in the hell do you expect is going to happen when children are animals, they behave like animals.
20yrsinBranson
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Originally Posted by malamute
- where were her parents -- what kind of parentsAnd the parents of the boys -- but that still doesn't mean parents have to dress their daughters like skanks.
OK, this last is very offensive to me. This girl was wearing, by all accounts, shorts and a t-shirt.
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Originally Posted by malamute
That's why the parents should have been tried -
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Originally Posted by malamute
B] parental responsibility[/b]
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
Parents are responsible for their children until they are 18. THAT is the law. If they are incapable of supervising their children properly then they must accept the consequences of their lack of parenting skills. Just because a child is old enough to drive does not give parents the right to abrogate their responsibilities to society.
20yrsinBranson
Where'd you go to law school?
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Originally Posted by malamute
It's a combination of things -- the boys didn't go out and rape girls that weren't at their party for one. Apparently other girls were there at the party and they raped only the one who did happen to be wearing few clothes. I never allowed my 16 year old daughter to go to parties wearing only skimpy shorts but yes, even if the girl's parents had allowed her to go to that party naked she should not have been raped.
If she were modestly dressed and not passed out drunk, probably she would not have been raped. I suspect the fact that she was drunk and they were was the biggest factor.
Parents don't have to expect that everyone is going to get drunk and have sex but parents can supervise their children by picking them up from a party at a normal time which for a 16 year old girl would be 11 pm, and make sure she's appropriately dressed in the first place, and make sure she knows that drinking is not going to be tolerated. Same goes for the parents of the boys, just a little normal supervision of them would have prevented all this in the first place.
Since these were all minor aged children involved, the bulk of the blame should be on their parents. Again, I'm for sending the boys to prison for the rest of their lives because it's too late now for prevention. They are rapists.
I see nothing apparent about that. Teen girls, more than any other group of people, tend to dress similarly for similar occasions. Remember all those old Cathy cartoons about showing up at the party in the wrong attire and how humiliating it was for her?
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Originally Posted by malamute
Except that she was only a child. I do feel sorry for children whose parents neglect them, because it really doesn't require much for parents to set a curfew, pick their children up from a party at a normal time, make sure there isn't going to be any drinking at the party, make sure they know what kind of kids their kid is associating with, and call up the adult who will be chaperoning the party. This is what parents of both boys and girls should automatically do and then something like this doesn't happen.
This whole thing is about kids just running wild and adults supplying them the alcohol and drugs and place to drink -- and rape.
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
They obviously did not supervise them. Unless they were there watching.
20yrsinBranson
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Originally Posted by malamute
No I'm not wrong -- which is why my daughter didn't leave the house in inappropriate clothes, certainly not to a drinking party -- but she never was allowed to go to drinking parties at that age. Ever seen girls shorts that cover even half of their thigh lately? Exactly -- they don't make them that way now. Shorts now are about 4 inches of material -- for a reason and that is that they bring male attention to the wearer.
Now that's funny! While it's possible you daughter NEVER dressed in what you consider "immodest" clothing, but you didn't "allow" her to go to drinking parties? How do you know everything she did after she left the house.
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
None of this would have happened if she had not gotten drunk.
It's. Her. Own. Fault. (and her irresponsible parents)
She's lucky she didn't end up dead. Darn lucky. There are a lot of really bad people out there who would have chopped her into little pieces.
This is why the drinking age is 21. DOH.
20yrsinBranson
Yes, and that kid in the Denver suburbs who did get chopped into pieces? 10 years old, dressed to go to 5th grade. It's not the clothing.
You're not the one ranting that she was dressed like a "****" for wearing a pair of shorts and a boys t-shirt, so therefore she got what she deserved because she wasn't dressed "modestly"--it wasn't directed at you. I agree about teaching girls to be aware of their surroundings and to be wary of situations where someone might be looking for someone vulnerable to attack, and limiting or restricting kids involvement in activities that they're not ready to deal with. That's all part of being a good parent.
Actually, that poster did talk about the girl being too "immodestly" dressed, although AFAIK we've never seen a picture of her in clothing.
I have one who's almost sixteen now. We got folks here talking about driving their kids at sixteen around and "supervising" them and on and on. Are you kidding me? They're sixteen not ten. All you can do like you say is instill values in em. Once they are old enough to go out on their own you have to trust em to do the right thing and hope they do. Or lock em in their room until ??? What age? He'll mine is big enough to whip my butt now if he wanted to so not really much I could do to stop him from going out if he decided to go "bad". Oh I could take his car keys away. lol
Well, whadda ya know! We agree on something! All this blaming the parents has gotten to me (as if you can't tell, LOL). About all you CAN do is take away car keys. I did refuse my daughter permission once to go to a party I considered sketchy. She had gone to a HS football game with us and wanted to go to this party someone who I didn't know, didn't live in our community, etc, was having. The friend who invited her had a reputation for hanging out with dirt-bag-type guys. DD came with us and went home with us. When she got home from school Monday, she told me there were some other kids who weren't allowed to go to that party. But what if I had never known? What if she had lied? (Wouldn't have been the first time.)
Sitting in their living rooms and smirking while listening to the news talk about another gang rape of a Swiss tourist lady in India with a "well what do you expect from a retarded country full of porch monkeys" but when the same news talks about a couple of kids down the street who are the local football heros raping a girl at a party with mulitple onlookers doing nothing about it......well then it's just: "boys will be boys".
Freak'n morons.
Girl's asking for it? I don't give a chit if the kid walked up to them and literally asked to be stuffed by fingers. Those guys should have known IT WOULD BE WRONG.
How these two neanderthals could perform such a deed without the complete and utter scorn of their peer group bringing them up short of committing this crime disturbs the absolute hell out of me. That enrages me more than the actual act.
The worship of a local football team takes prescedence over any moral underpinnings at all? Freak'n morons!
Shame should rain on Steubenville! If only to teach them some priorities.
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
Seriously? That's ridiculous. If that is the worst thing that happens to her in her life, she should count herself blessed. If she can't handle a this kind of thing, what is she going to do if something REALLY BAD happens to her? Kill herself?
Boy, people are weak.
20yrsinBranson
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Originally Posted by gtc08
dress like a ****, your going to get treated like one.
dont really have much sympathy for her.
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Originally Posted by ellemint
I'd say being sexually molested while you're incapacitated, having naked pictures of yourself being posted and publicly viewed by your classmates, and going through this trial, would be pretty traumatic for anyone. I would say this qualifies as "really bad." Try to put yourself in her shoes, and imagine if it was your naked pic making the rounds: how would you feel?
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Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson
What is wrong with this world? When I was a kid boys were always sticking their fingers where they didn't belong. It was considered FUNNY by all parties. Nobody ran to their mommies and cried RAPE. We are becoming a nation of cry babies.
20yrsinBranson
Well. Here are just a few posts that caught my attention. I see, yet again, that conservatives yelling the loudest for personal responsibility are willing to give these boys a pass. Boys will be boys and, you know, that type of thing.
OH - and it's really no big deal if one is violated repeatedly and filmed and pictures taken to be passed around the entire football team, school, and town. Why - just a tiny little blip on the radar of life.
And Republicans wonder (yes, wonder) WHY they are known as the party with the 'war on women'.
I raised a boy, a young man, thank you very much and I guarantee he knows right from wrong. And raping a girl is wrong - period, end of story.
Well. Here are just a few posts that caught my attention. I see, yet again, that conservatives yelling the loudest for personal responsibility are willing to give these boys a pass. Boys will be boys and, you know, that type of thing.
OH - and it's really no big deal if one is violated repeatedly and filmed and pictures taken to be passed around the entire football team, school, and town. Why - just a tiny little blip on the radar of life.
And Republicans wonder (yes, wonder) WHY they are known as the party with the 'war on women'.
I raised a boy, a young man, thank you very much and I guarantee he knows right from wrong. And raping a girl is wrong - period, end of story.
Brusan, loved your post.
Yes, and these pictures were put on Facebook, I believe as well. Just a little WWW exposure. No biggie. Good Grief!
I have one who's almost sixteen now. We got folks here talking about driving their kids at sixteen around and "supervising" them and on and on. Are you kidding me? They're sixteen not ten. All you can do like you say is instill values in em. Once they are old enough to go out on their own you have to trust em to do the right thing and hope they do. Or lock em in their room until ??? What age? He'll mine is big enough to whip my butt now if he wanted to so not really much I could do to stop him from going out if he decided to go "bad". Oh I could take his car keys away. lol
I mean, this is true. I have a 17 year old that drives to and from work/practice, etc. He was raised in the church; he was raised with values and now I have to TRUST. I know his friends and their parents; I do not ever see him taking part in any kind of action such as this.
I have to think that some of the posters advocating constant supervision do not have children or certainly do not have teen-agers.
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That seems really, really odd.
