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Old 04-22-2013, 11:47 AM
 
1,963 posts, read 1,823,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
The ratio in 1980 was about 30:1 .... Say, what started happening to the US Middle Class in the 1980s?
Reagan and Bush.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:52 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,135,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Yes, we should be "glad." For if the company had failed and ceased to exist
Please list all of these phantom car companies that didnt get bailed out and ceased to exist..

Are you really that dumb that you think BK = ceasing to exist?
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:52 AM
 
1,728 posts, read 1,778,790 times
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Detroit desserter



Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I guess. I mean, you don't really expect a company as large as GM not to manufacture elsewhere, do you?
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Globalism ate away at American production over the years.
Change doesn't come overnight but it does come.

One day you turn around and ask "What happened ? I didn't see it happening."
Incrementalism people.

We went from a producer to a consumer. Consumers don't make anything.
We buy and fix stuff. To keep that going the "stuff" has to be limited in duration so you keep buying it.
You used to be able to buy an appliance and have it last 20+ years. Today, you're lucky if it hasn't been serviced in the past 3 years and the parts/service cost almost as much as the appliance itself.

Sure, blame people, people of the opposite party for causing what you see today.
It won't do any good except to soothe your ego.

Just follow what the current administration tells us..FORWARD.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Generally, i'd agree.

However, Japan won't let Toyota fail. They'd never let Honda fail. Hell, they'd never let any of their huge manufacturers fail.

Ditto Germany or France...or S. Korea. You think they'd let Hyundai fail? Hell no.

So long as our competitors will save their auto manufacturers, we should save ours. Hell, we're already paying for the defense of those nations as it is. No wonder they can afford to subsidize their corporations.
Failed policies in one area does not justify failed policies in another. Yes, we should not be paying to protect Japan, etc. Those bases should be a PROFIT center, not a COST center. Or else close them.

But bailing out GM did not save our auto industry. If they had gone bankrupt, a new company would have formed out of the GM assets but without the pension baggage.

If a company is too big to fail, it's too big to exist.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,863,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
Reagan and Bush.
I think it was the Conservative adoption and raising the ugly head of the Supply Side Economic Theory that has proven to be such a failure, yet still championed by the blind of the Right.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I look at this as a catch 22. If we had not bailed the automobile companies out, unemployment rates would have gone up into the 30% range. The bailout kept the unemployment rates from skyrocketing to record levels..
No, it did not.

And there is no evidence that unemployment rates would have gone up without a bail out. Companies get bought or merge when bankrupt. Look at the airlines. Look at Hostess cupcakes. Bankruptcy does not mean all the employees lose their jobs.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,977,520 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
But bailing out GM did not save our auto industry. If they had gone bankrupt, a new company would have formed out of the GM assets but without the pension baggage.
.
correct, and as of today, GM's underfunding of pensions exceeds its market capitalization, so ina few decades, it will either end up liquidating or requiring enormous new mountains of cash.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Please list all of these phantom car companies that didnt get bailed out and ceased to exist..

Are you really that dumb that you think BK = ceasing to exist?
Exactly.

GM had a few hundred thousand skilled workers. If GM were allowed to go under, the auto industry would still need hundreds of thousands of skilled workers. The demand for workers would not change. So other companies would have met the demand using ex GM workers.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,753,051 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
correct, and as of today, GM's underfunding of pensions exceeds its market capitalization, so ina few decades, it will either end up liquidating or requiring enormous new mountains of cash.
Another bail out if the idiots in DC have their way.
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