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freemkt, do you actually think the investor does not pass the tax onto the renter?
Yea, lets raise taxes to the hilt on rental property, no problem, then it will get passed on the the renter. You lose!
of COURSE the investor passes the tax onto the renter - but a lot of conservatives (here and elsewhere) concoct the silly notion that the renter does not bear the tax because he pays "rent" rather than "tax" (as property owners pay directly).
my position, of course is that renters literally need the greatest supply of rental ousing the private sector is willig and able to provide, and renters also need a free ousing market where a willing property owner can sell them a (tiny) house tey can afford, so that they may escape rent inflation and unfair taxes on rental property.
There is nothing to refute. My main point is that wealth can only exist with the creation of a society, which creates money, laws, has workers, and consumers and without those things the wealthy have nothing. This is objectively true and you didn't address that.
Instead you created a post that threw up a bunch of word vomit that is irrelevant to my main point.
Again, I listed every point you made, none of those points addressed my main point, not one.
How does the fact that you believe that societies weren't created for wealth creation address my point that wealth can only exist once a society is created, which creates, markets, money, laws, workers, and consumers?
How does the fact that you believe that societies don't come up with ideas to create wealth individuals do address my point that wealth can only exist once a society is created which creates markets, money, laws, workers and consumers?
How does the fact that you believe exorbitant taxes wealth people blah, blah, blah address my point that wealth can only exist once a society is created which creates markets, money, laws, workers and consumers?
Again, you can pretend that you addressed my point, but you didn't. There is no way a person can say oh yes that addresses his main point. Do better.
Let's try this again, and I'll speak slowly to help you understand.
Your point was that societies are necessary for a market to exist, and therefore the people who acquire wealth from the market owe that wealth to societies. In reality, without the need to trade with others, societies would still be at the level of tribal groups, with little to no interaction between one small group and the next.
If anything, society owes the market for its existence, not the other way around.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
and renters also need a free ousing market where a willing property owner can sell them a (tiny) house tey can afford, so that they may escape rent inflation and unfair taxes on rental property.
How many times have we told you... you are free to buy any house you want that you can afford. What do you want... the government to tell the homeowner how much to sell you that house for? To actually set the price for real estate?
Let's try this again, and I'll speak slowly to help you understand.
Your point was that societies are necessary for a market to exist, and therefore the people who acquire wealth from the market owe that wealth to societies. In reality, without the need to trade with others, societies would still be at the level of tribal groups, with little to no interaction between one small group and the next.
If anything, society owes the market for its existence, not the other way around.
That is not my point. Try again. I said that wealth can not exist without the formation of societies. This is 100% reality. Individuals owe their wealth to the creation of societies. This is 100% reality. Now you can either address that point or not.
Tribes are societies. Without human being gathering in groups and working cooperatively, there is zero wealth creation. Wealthy people owe their wealth to this reality.
Poor people in America could use the money while the rich will remain rich after the tax money is taken from them.
The operative word there is "taken".
Why not just take everything? Where is it stated in the Constitution, that the government has the right to take money and redistribute it, "to each according to his needs"? Why are liberals so fascinated with tyranny?
Do you know a great way to move wealth and capital out of the US? With your plan. You probably did not realize that such a "plan" would bankrupt many family farms and force them into foreclosure for tax liens.
That is not my point. Try again. I said that wealth can not exist without the formation of societies. This is 100% reality. Individuals owe their wealth to the creation of societies. This is 100% reality. Now you can either address that point or not.
Tribes are societies. Without human being gathering in groups and working cooperatively, there is zero wealth creation. Wealthy people owe their wealth to this reality.
You are still failing to address the fact that without the need for a market, societies would not exist. If you're going to claim that wealth is derived from the existence of society, you need to go to the next step in the chain and realize that without the need to trade for goods society would be nonexistent. Therefore, the market and its resultant wealth is responsible for the existence of society. At which point, your claim that the wealthy owe society something for their existence is false.
You are still failing to address the fact that without the need for a market, societies would not exist. If you're going to claim that wealth is derived from the existence of society, you need to go to the next step in the chain and realize that without the need to trade for goods society would be nonexistent. Therefore, the market and its resultant wealth is responsible for the existence of society. At which point, your claim that the wealthy owe society something for their existence is false.
I am not claiming anything. It is a fact not even debatable that without human beings forming societies, tribes, nations, creating money, laws, that wealth cannot exist.
Also you nonsense about markets creating the need for societies is so silly and ignorant. Look man if you think early tribes which were the first human societies formed because of markets, lololololol.
Why not just take everything? Where is it stated in the Constitution, that the government has the right to take money and redistribute it, "to each according to his needs"? Why are liberals so fascinated with tyranny?
Do you know a great way to move wealth and capital out of the US? With your plan. You probably did not realize that such a "plan" would bankrupt many family farms and force them into foreclosure for tax liens.
First off its not taken. No more than George Washington [took] when he used force to put down a rebellion over a Whiskey tax. Its constitutional so suck it up. Also one thing we do need is means testing for medicare and social security. If you are worth several million you should not be able to get either. Just as unemployment is paid in by all workers. But not all workers will ever draw it. Its an insurance. So for those at the very top, they do not need it but we all pay for it. I may not ever drive across the Brooklyn bridge but its paid to be maintained by taxes. Someone from Brooklyn may never drive on my road in front of my home but taxes both federal and state pay for it to be maintained.
I will say right up front I have a few doubts you are "real" at all as concerns your OP. I might be wrong -- and apologize if I am -- but somehow I get a certain impression you just want to start a fuss. Or else just a bit infatuated with yourself and self-assumed morally superior outlook.
BUT? Ok. Assuming you really believe what you write? Then, I would like to reply a bit to some of your posts as presented randomly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10
Mandatory tutoring?
Not a bad idea!
Mandatory tutoring already exists in public schools. Are you proposing extending it? If so, should those who tutor be "drafted" into service to do so? And by what authority? The Dept. of Education? Should those required to tutor be compensated for their time? Or would they be forced to give up a part of their free time after work hours to provide the said tutoring sans any benefits? Anyway, explain your proposal, please as to what all would be entailed by "mandatory tutoring."
Quote:
Imagine the punishment poor people have to go through everyday.
I know it might be hard to fathom -- for a young, naïve, idealistic, person like what you come across as being -- but lots and lots of us out here in the real world, have been "poor." in the past. I know I have. And I mean by this having once lived out of my car. Have you?
But you know what happened? I finally grew up and figured out nobody but me was going to get me out of it. I eventually got into the public school teaching profession and, I dare say, have done more for "poor" kids than you have. One thing is I tried to instill in them that they are not "victims", but responsible for their own destiny; to get the entitlement sense out of their heads because not only are they being "used" by those who make a good living off of it themselves (government bureaucrats and politicians), but they are worth more than that.
BTW -- most "poor" people today will be in the middle and upper-class in 20 years. Here is a good article on the subject:
This can be interpreted as rich people caring more about their belongings than the plight of the poor
Or? On the other hand? It can also be interpreted as the opening to ask how many jobs have you personally ever created to help anyone? Far as that goes? How much of your own money and or time have you given to help the "poor"? *shrug* It is easy to spend someone elses', naturally!
But that is enough from me for now. Just thought I would toss out a line or two! Have a nice day!
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