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Actually most people do not benefit from corporate America immensely, only the people at the top. The middle-class benefits somewhat, and poorer people are usually exploited by the current system and suffer under its unfairness. The American economy is not doing that well for the people in the middle and below.
Economic value is only one value. Our current system does not add value to the environment, it degrades it and may make our planet unliveable ultimately. The current system does not value humanity, family, compassion, fairness, equality, justice, and does not provide anything close to equal opportunity for everyone. In fact, the U.S. is becoming one of the most unequal nations in the world, with the some of the least opportunity among developed nations, for a person to move up in socioeconomic status.
By what right do you claim the earnings of another?
I'm not.
You use words like "claim" and clearly label your comments as self-centered and antisocial.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
That is what you advocate, so by what right are you entitled?
What makes you think you're entitled to enjoy the benefits of the economy that society furnishes for your use, that society fosters and incentivizes with its resources, that society protects with its oversight, that society ensures is safe and reliable with its courts, etc., without paying the specified rent for your place within the economy?
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
There isn't any nonsense to what I posted.
What else would someone trying to justify a patently antisocial perspective, such as yours, would say?
Apparently corporate America and our government didn't get the message.
That's not it. They just didn't agree.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
income inequality
You need to relate to Generation ME that they don't get those corner offices and six figure salaries just for showing up with a worthless degree in liberal arts. I know that they always got a trophy for little league and soccer, regardless of whether or not they performed well, but in the real world, performance actually matters.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
wage stagnation
See above. Also, no business is going to hire or give raises when the economy is teetering on the brink of disaster.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
corporate greed.
How many businesses have you started? Zero? Maybe one? If it's the latter, why did you start it? To make money? Hmm. If it's the former, then based on that and the statement you made, I'd have to say that you don't understand a single thing about why businesses are started in the first place, or how they're run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
The Economy is STILL the most important issue in this country
Nah. It clearly isn't, or Obama wouldn't have been re-elected. You had a guy that undeniably knows how to manage money. He was stiff and boring, sure, but nobody can deny that his understanding of economics is infinitely higher than Obama's, and on most of the real issues (not the wedge issues that will never change, e.g. abortion), he and Obama were pretty much in line. But you guys wanted the suave, smiling rock star, and you got exactly what you wanted - and deserved. "Elections have consequences," remember? You got what you wanted, no, demanded. Live with it. You'll have a chance to demonstrate that you know just how badly you screwed up in a few years.
My favorite part of the Occupy discrediting via the mainstream media?
Foxnews et al actually convinced poor, aging christian conservatives- ie ignorant people who have children w/ no future, people who would most benefit from an undercutting of corporate fascism- that occupy was some laughable hippie movement. They picked out the craziest folks from the crowds and put a spotlight on them to belittle the cause.
You might want to mention that to the Oakland police, but I doubt they'll listen. I'm pretty sure that it was more than just a few "crazy folks" that were rioting there.
And of course there's the "women only" tents setup in NYC to try and keep more women from being raped.
And how can we forget about the hypodermics found all over the place in Portland?
But I'm sure it was all just Fox news twisting things around. Those riots weren't really riots - they were just street parties that got a little out of hand, right? The hypos? I'm sure there were just a whole bunch of diabetics in the crowd, that's all. And the anti-rape tents? That's a tough one. Not sure how you can twist that into something that it's not, but you're welcome to try.
Thanks There are corporations that are economically successful in the current market and value not only profits and money, but things like social and environmental responsibility, engagement, community, and fairness. They use a different business model very successfully.
Mondragon, the seventh largest company in Spain, is a huge worker and community-owned global conglomerate that not only runs industrial enterprises, but schools, banks, hospitals and housing. More than 85,000 employees, 9,000 students, and most of their industrial workers own the company. How inspiring is that!
(One of my pet peeves is that when a manufacturing plant is about to be closed for "failing", employees sometimes have offered to buy it and take over production. It would be win-win for everyone but the vultures that profit by destroying these companies, like Mitt Romney's company, who never accept that offer. They would rather kill the company, dismantle it, and sell everything for a profit.)
There is also something called the International Organization for a Participatory Society, that I have just started learning about.
Actually most people do not benefit from corporate America immensely, only the people at the top. The middle-class benefits somewhat, and poorer people are usually exploited by the current system and suffer under its unfairness. The American economy is not doing that well for the people in the middle and below.
Economic value is only one value. Our current system does not add value to the environment, it degrades it and may make our planet unliveable ultimately. The current system does not value humanity, family, compassion, fairness, equality, justice, and does not provide anything close to equal opportunity for everyone. In fact, the U.S. is becoming one of the most unequal nations in the world, with the some of the least opportunity among developed nations, for a person to move up in socioeconomic status.
So you don't have a mortgage to buy a home? You didn't borrow money to buy a car? You don't use products that are a fraction of the cost of custom production due to economies of scale? The middle class only has the lifestyle that it does because of corporate America. The size of the average middle class home has increased by 240% since 1950, the number of cars owned by the middle class has doubled since 1960, the amount of money spent on leisure as a % of income as increased six times over in the last 50 years, and all of that is thanks to wall street and corporate america. That is hardly being 'exploited'. You are right though, it is difficult for people to move up the ladder, and that is because they would rather stand around protesting instead of working harder to make more of their own lives.
So you don't have a mortgage to buy a home? You didn't borrow money to buy a car? You don't use products that are a fraction of the cost of custom production due to economies of scale? The middle class only has the lifestyle that it does because of corporate America. The size of the average middle class home has increased by 240% since 1950, the number of cars owned by the middle class has doubled since 1960, the amount of money spent on leisure as a % of income as increased six times over in the last 50 years, and all of that is thanks to wall street and corporate america. That is hardly being 'exploited'. You are right though, it is difficult for people to move up the ladder, and that is because they would rather stand around protesting instead of working harder to make more of their own lives.
I wasn't referring to the time period since 1950. I meant more the last 30 years, during which real wages for the middle class have stagnated, most people lost wealth because their home values declined, income and wealth inequality are at levels not seen since since the 1920s, a record number of people are on food stamps, and there are more people in poverty than ever. Also, the recent recession hit the average person hard, and the recovery has been unequal, overwhelmingly benefiting the wealthy and not the middle class or poor.
The middle-class has the lifestyle they have despite corporate America, not because of it. If the system wasn't rigged in favor of the large corporations, allowing them to pay paltry wages with no benefits, the middle class would be doing even better.
In terms of leisure, the largest percentage of all income for poor and rich alike is spent on housing. But after that, the next highest item for the rich, is travel. For the poor and middle-class, it's food.
So the wealthy are the ones spending a lot on leisure. For the average poor family, with each parent working two jobs, I don't think there is much leisure.
And having to work two jobs just to survive, probably jobs with no health insurance and poor benefits, yes, I think that is exploitation. I think that anyone who works hard at a full-time job and still needs food stamps to survive is being exploited.
You demonize the poor and think they don't work hard. I'm talking real opportunity, like access to good schools. In doesn't matter how hard a parent works, if their child goes to a failing, they are nearly always doomed. There are high schools in the U.S. in which less than 80 % of the class graduates. What chance does a child have going to a school like that? Children from poor families who graduate college make less than rich kids who don't graduate college. Rich people who fail at their jobs get bail-outs and golden parachutes, poor people get canned.
And most businesses wouldn't exist without start up capital. Obviously they are more than that. That also isn't to say that the capital isn't essential.
Exactly my point, and the point which OWS completely misses. There is a reason wall street and the corporate world operates the way that it does, most people benefit from it immensely, and the only reason people are unhappy about the system is because they are oblivious to how it actually works. OWS was a bunch of kids whining about how bad things are without any knowledge of how things really work.
No they don't! The fat cats benefit, and the rest of us get poorer, less competition and a business climate that is ruled by cronies. The game is rigged, that's how it works.
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There are corporations that are economically successful in the current market and value not only profits and money, but things like social and environmental responsibility, engagement, community, and fairness. They use a different business model very successfully.