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If in the act of a crime someone dies you can get charged with murder. It stands to reason that if you punch someone and they fall, cutting the back of their head it is still you that caused the injury. So what is the difference?
(30 posts later - still crickets)
That's exactly what happened in a schoolyard bullying incident earlier this year. A bully sucker-punched a kid and the kid fell back on his head and later died from the brain injury. But that punch was severe enough that it did break the victim's nose. But so far, no one has been charged in the case.
In one account GZ say he was approached at the T, was sucker punched and immediately went down with TM on top of him. In the re-enactment he realizes that this does not fit with the location of the body and shows how he made wimpy shoo-shoo waves with his hands and walked down the T before he was hit. The location he shows is still only 1/2 way to TM's body. His versions don't fit with the location of the body or the claim he was surprised and sucker punched at the T.
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he made wimpy shoo-shoo waves
What the heck does that mean?
According to the photos I've seen the body was found very close to the "Tee", maybe 20-30 feet, or the width of a good sized living room. IMO it's very reasonable to think that the struggle could have had them moving that far. They were certainly far closer to the Tee than Martin's house, which was (reportedly) 170 feet from the scene. I would have to think that if Z had continued to "pursue" M, the incident would have been closer to Ms house. In addition we have witness testimony that says one of the players came from "left to right" (from Ms house towards the T). If M were concerned about Z, why would he leave the security of his house and go towards Z? I don't believe the testimony said anything about BOTH players moving that way, only one. Which would support the contention that M confronted/assaulted Z at, or at least near, the Tee, as Z stated.
That's exactly what happened in a schoolyard bullying incident earlier this year. A bully sucker-punched a kid and the kid fell back on his head and later died from the brain injury. But that punch was severe enough that it did break the victim's nose. But so far, no one has been charged in the case.
They hired a PR firm? Which PR firm was hired by the Martin's and when in relation to the death was the photo released?
Ryan Julison, who had previously worked as the PR guy for John Travolta. He put together a campaign of misinformation and the media bought it hook, line, and sinker. And many people on this thread still believe that PR campaign despite tons of evidence to dispute it. It's why people are shocked and frustrated at how bad the prosecution's case is.
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It's likely that Martin's death, which resulted in the arrest and indictment Wednesday of confessed shooter George Zimmerman, would never have crowded into the national consciousness had it not been for Martin's family, its lawyers and an enterprising PR man.
For the most part, the Martin story found the media, rather than vice versa. Outraged by the lack of an arrest, the Martin camp lobbied news outlets to examine what had happened that night in Sanford.
A pivotal, if little-known, figure in the Martin story's development was Ryan Julison, an Orlando public relations executive who began working with the Martin family at the behest of its attorneys, Benjamin Crump and Natalie Jackson.
What specific statements did Z lie about, or contradict each other? Not just "whine whine, he kept changing his statement", exactly what did he say that differed? I honestly want to know, because I haven't heard him testify, nor seen the reenactment.
He said he was walking back to his vehicle, and was on the sidewalk at the T, when Trayvon appeared out of the dark and confronted him. But the altercation started and finished about 35 feet away from the T down the dog-walk. And at least one witness said the fight started even further down the alley and moved towards the site where Trayvon's body was found. That supports Rachel's ear-witness testimony that it was Zimmerman who appeared behind Trayvon, and surprised him. Meaning Trayvon was indeed headed home, and Zimmerman was headed down the alley on foot pursuing him, and not heading back to his car.
He confabulated aspects of the attack. His non-serious injuries do not support the scenario he portrays that he was repeatedly punched, and smothered, and had his head repeatedly bashed against the concrete. Instead his injuries support that he did fall to the ground after his nose was punched, and that they tussled on the ground. Also there is no Zimmerman DNA on Trayvon's hands, and no injuries to Trayvon's knuckles.
The lack of injuries to Trayvon, other than the gunshot, support the notion that from the get-go Zimmerman was reaching for his gun, instead of fighting back. That makes it likely that Trayvon knew that, and was indeed fighting for his life.
I believe Rachel's testimony because I don't think she has much skin the game. I think despite lots of phone conversation, Trayvon and her were not ultra-close friends. They had just renewed their childhood friendship earlier that month.
She avoided testifying as much as possible. That was irresponsible, and showed a lack of concern, but it shows she wasn't trying to get in there and influence things. She may be inarticulate, but she has never wavered from her account that Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman, Zimmerman came up behind him, and so on.
According to the photos I've seen the body was found very close to the "Tee", maybe 20-30 feet, or the width of a good sized living room. IMO it's very reasonable to think that the struggle could have had them moving that far. They were certainly far closer to the Tee than Martin's house, which was (reportedly) 170 feet from the scene. I would have to think that if Z had continued to "pursue" M, the incident would have been closer to Ms house. In addition we have witness testimony that says one of the players came from "left to right" (from Ms house towards the T). If M were concerned about Z, why would he leave the security of his house and go towards Z? I don't believe the testimony said anything about BOTH players moving that way, only one. Which would support the contention that M confronted/assaulted Z at, or at least near, the Tee, as Z stated.
He didn't. He was headed away from the T. Zimmerman came up behind Trayvon some way down the alley-way on foot. That is supported by Rachel's ear witness testimony.
He said he was walking back to his vehicle, and was on the sidewalk at the T, when Trayvon appeared out of the dark and confronted him. But the altercation started and finished about 35 feet away from the T down the dog-walk. And at least one witness said the fight started even further down the alley and moved towards the site where Trayvon's body was found. That supports Rachel's ear-witness testimony that it was Zimmerman who appeared behind Trayvon, and surprised him. Meaning he was headed down the alley on foot searching for Trayvon, not back to his car.
He confabulated aspects of the attack. His non-serious injuries do not support the scenario he portrays that he was repeatedly punched, and smothered, and had his head repeatedly bashed against the concrete. Instead his injuries support that he did fall to the ground after his nose was punched, and that they tussled on the ground. Also there is no Zimmerman DNA on Trayvon's hands, and no injuries to Trayvon's knuckles.
The lack of injuries to Trayvon, other than the gunshot, support the notion that from the get-go Zimmerman was reaching for his gun, instead of fighting back. That makes it likely that Trayvon knew that, and was indeed fighting for his life.
Zimmerman's testimony contradicts Rachel's ear-witness account of the initial encounter and verbal exchange between Trayvon and Zimmerman. She said several times that Zimmerman came up behind Trayvon.
I believe her testimony because I don't think she has much skin the game. I think despite lots of phone conversation, Trayvon and her were not ultra-close friends. They had just renewed their childhood friendship earlier that month.
She avoided testifying as much as possible. That was irresponsible, and showed a lack of concern, but it shows she wasn't trying to get in there and influence things. She may be inarticulate, but she has never wavered from her account that Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman, Zimmerman came up behind him, and so on.
How would she know if Z came up behind M from the phone call? Did M say that he did in the conversation? I don't recall that in the testimony.
I'm waiting to learn more about the timeline of the phone calls in future testimony. We know Zs call lasted some 3-4 minutes, about 2 minutes of that after he left his car. Was Ms call going on during this time? I think that the 911 calls about the fight started 1-3 minutes after the end of Zs call, but am not sure about that. I'm also not sure if M was on the phone with DD the entire time, or if he called her sometime after Z loses him.
I lost track, are you arguing that Ms attack indeed had a good potential to cause great bodily harm or death?
No, I am saying that even after an attack that did result in a brain injury and death of the victim, 13 year old Bailey O'Neill, the perpetrator, another student, is not being charged, so far, because apparently they are taking into account that kids in schoolyards get sucker-punched all the time and usually do not die from it. That's my speculation. The D.A. in that case keeps saying the case is under investigation, as far as I know.
How would she know if Z came up behind M from the phone call? Did M say that he did in the conversation? I don't recall that in the testimony.
I'm waiting to learn more about the timeline of the phone calls in future testimony. We know Zs call lasted some 3-4 minutes, about 2 minutes of that after he left his car. Was Ms call going on during this time? I think that the 911 calls about the fight started 1-3 minutes after the end of Zs call, but am not sure about that. I'm also not sure if M was on the phone with DD the entire time, or if he called her sometime after Z loses him.
Yes, she said it in her testimony. She said it several times. She said that Zimmerman came up behind Trayvon, but I would have to go look for her exact words, and since she was on the stand for 7 hours I don't feel like searching through that video right now.
Yes, she said it in her testimony. She said it several times. She said that Zimmerman came up behind Trayvon, but I would have to go look for her exact words, and since she was on the stand for 7 hours I don't feel like searching through that video right now.
How would she know? She was on the other end of the phone. And really, this is the same woman who says she can hear wet grass through the phone? I have to question someones level of intellect and common sense if they can believe anything she has said.
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