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Old 06-25-2013, 07:21 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,734,435 times
Reputation: 1034

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
What you spend per school aged child and what you spend on each child in school can be different amounts. At least some of the countries talked about here do not educate all of their children as the US does.
They can be different amounts but it will not change the final outcome that the United States spends more than most of the first world.

I hope most Americans understand this is about proper use of the funds we invest in education.
The DOE and entities such as teachers unions in America have clearly hinderd progress.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,018,321 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
We used to follow that path at one time. College bound or vocation bound.
But then we decided that everyone is going to college regardless of their ability.
And because we did that our standing in the global world fell.

It was a decision made by the Board of Education.
Such a poor one too. We still need the plumbers in this world and frankly, not every kid is college material.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:22 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Do you know algebra? No
My niece who just graduated from 4th grade would answer yes to that question. Granted it's basic algebra but nonetheless it's algebra. She has parents that have taken an interest in her education and a school district that is above average.

America hasn't failed this child you speak of. Her parents, her community and her school has failed her.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:24 AM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,257,576 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Such a poor one too. We still need the plumbers in this world and frankly, not every kid is college material.
No kidding, and electricians with some business savvy can make well north of 6 figures.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,520,614 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
We used to follow that path at one time. College bound or vocation bound.
But then we decided that everyone is going to college regardless of their ability.
And because we did that our standing in the global world fell.

It was a decision made by the Board of Education.
Yup but I don't think the average person realizes why our standing fell. It's not the fact we now include all students. It's the fact we have no choice but to teach to the bottom of the class because the number we live and die by is their passing rate. It pains me not to be able to help the top of my class soar. There just isn't enough of me to go around by the time I spend all of my energies on that bottom 20% who are at risk of not passing state tests and not graduating.

Here in Michigan, they "raised" the bar by requiring all students take chemistry and algebra II in order to graduate from high school and turned around and rated schools on their graduation rates. What do you think happened to the bar in chemistry and algebra II classes across the state? ....How LOOOOWWW can you go....We're doing the limbo... We have to. Our funding depends on the lowest performing students passing the tests and graduating. I'm not sure if it's next year or the year after but they're going to start reporting the % of students who pass the state tests on a teacher's PR. If your livelihood depended on Johnny, who is asleep in the back of the classroom and Suzy who is texting her friends during class and Billy who never does his homework, would your focus be on Vincent and Margaret who wants to go deeper or the kids sleeping, texting and not doing their homework? Vincent and Margaret learning more wont help me keep my job or my school keep its funding. Getting Johnny to wake up, Suzy to log off and going over every homework problem on the board so Billy at least saw them might.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:25 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,734,435 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
My niece who just graduated from 4th grade would answer yes to that question. Granted it's basic algebra but nonetheless it's algebra. She has parents that have taken an interest in her education and a school district that is above average.

America hasn't failed this child you speak of. Her parents, her community and her school has failed her.
Wrong-America has failed this child. Parents, community schools are what form America. Not to mention the DOE.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:25 AM
 
72,971 posts, read 62,554,457 times
Reputation: 21872
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Sounds like THAT person has failed to apply themselves......sounds like the PARENTS do not really give a **** about their kids education. If that student wants to be a doctor....wow, I hope she does not succeed!

Enough with the BS guilt-trip.....some kids don't care about a formal education.....they can be janitors or fast-food workers.
And if the schools aren't teaching it or doing their due diligence, then the child will suffer from that. Schools are suppose to teach and children are suppose to learn. Part of it is the parents not doing their job and the children not doing their part. However, some of these schools aren't doing their part either.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 11,018,321 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
No kidding, and electricians with some business savvy can make well north of 6 figures.
And HVAC. I had to get our drains cleaned on our systems. Over $400 bucks. Shoot, they get $100 bucks just to come to your house. That equates to a very decent living. All could be gained in vo-tech if it were still around. I guess they have Community College now to make up for it but before a child could graduate from high school ready to work.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel View Post
Such a poor one too. We still need the plumbers in this world and frankly, not every kid is college material.
The DOE thinks they are.

And the sad thing is that they are pushed through the system even when they fail.
Retention occurs very infrequently because after being left back twice you end up aging out and passed on anyways.

Then those that are failing are pushed into Community College.
They get their student loans and off they go.
Graduation rate of CC students is 30%. The other 70% drop out.

And they are not given any alternatives in K-12.
It's a single path that is college bound.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:27 AM
 
Location: MO
2,122 posts, read 3,683,724 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
So today was my first day mentoring an inner city minority student (12th grade) in lab in order to get her working on some real science that she's never had the opportunity to have access to in her life. Let's go over the checklist in educational background for someone entering the 12th grade in this program:

Have you ever taken chemistry? No
Have you ever taken physics? No
Have you ever taken biology? A little bit
--So what does DNA do? I have no idea
Do you know algebra? No

Ok how let's start off easy,

How many micro- and milli- liters are in a liter? No clue
How many milli- grams are in a gram? What does 500 milligrams look like in numbers on a scale that reads in grams?

If you divide 10^6 by 10^3 what number do you have left over? How about 10^-3 divided by 10^-6?



Shocking America. Wake up. You've failed your underprivileged youth. This 12th grader stands no chance, the buck was simply passed along to someone else while she was allowed to pass all the way into 12th grade when her math skills are borderline 3rd/4th grade level. How does anyone who has never studied basic physics/chemistry and doesn't even know what DNA does stand a chance at getting into college when her dreams are to become a doctor? At some point, we need to wake up and say the failure ends right now. For all of the whining about how minorities in underprivileged areas are leeches on tax payer dollar handouts, you'd think people would want to break the cycle of failure that leads to it in the first place. It's not this girl's fault every single adult in her life up until now has completely failed her in an epic fashion. And you wonder why so many people get caught in the cycle of failure that drains inner city youth? Look in the mirror. Everyone is responsible for this failure that leads to the same cycle all over again of poverty and crime. Fail America.
I didn't take Chemistry or Physics in HS and the highest math class I took when I was in high school was Algebra II. I graduated with a horrible GPA and even failed a few classes.

Yet, I am going to be graduating with a degree in Mechanical Engineering in less than a year and I've had two internships. I'm sure the kid you are mentoring has a long way to go. I know I sure as hell did.

I barely got into college. I never have been the college type but engineering always fascinated me so I knew that I needed to do it if I could. If I wasn't in engineering I would probably have went to trade school for welding.
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